Solar Panel Guide Discussion

orrery

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

I`m still a bit baffled why none of the salesman have made any mention of this issue when they had a look round in the meter cabinet. If i was the salesman i would have replied " Hey mate your on a good thing here your meter will go backwards Blah Blah Blah!"

I think that most salesmen will take the view that they don't mention anything that may put up doubts in your head and get in the way of the sale.

Martyn1981

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

I`m still a bit baffled why none of the salesman have made any mention of this issue when they had a look round in the meter cabinet.

If i was the salesman i would have replied " Hey mate your on a good thing here your meter will go backwards and this means even bigger savings for you pal. Blah Blah Blah!"

Thanks

SL

I'm not sure if they'll be able to tell. I'd be interested to know if there is some visual way of knowing, but basically an old spinny disc could give 3 results (any more than 3 anyone?).
1. Will freely spin digits backwards.
2. Will only spin the 'units' digit backwards, and backstops on zero for instance.
3. Won't spin any digits backwards.

Just a thought, going back a couple of posts. You said nobody has mentioned an EPC. Do they include the cost of the EPC in their quotes, somewhere (most do)? Have you any idea what yours might be (with or without the PV)?

Mart.

Sirlaughalot

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I'm not sure if they'll be able to tell. I'd be interested to know if there is some visual way of knowing, but basically an old spinny disc could give 3 results (any more than 3 anyone?).
1. Will freely spin digits backwards.
2. Will only spin the 'units' digit backwards, and backstops on zero for instance.
3. Won't spin any digits backwards.

Just a thought, going back a couple of posts. You said nobody has mentioned an EPC. Do they include the cost of the EPC in their quotes, somewhere (most do)? Have you any idea what yours might be (with or without the PV)?

Mart.

Hi Mart/Mert,

Only one installer has mentioned anything about EPC and he said he would send somebody around to assess the epc after the install. Said it would cost him around £40/£60!

My main worry regarding this meter issue would be it causing a problem when it came to changing energy supplier!

Thanks

SL

John_Pierpoint

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Hi Oscargrouch,

From here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62602675#Comment_62602675

I don`t think jumping in head first is the best way to make a sound financial judgement. Some of the spin by these solar panel salesman has been quite incredible and i`m not surprised the industry has such a bad reputation. Here are just a few examples i have experienced.

1 - Not getting the basic roof measurements correct - Major embarrassment on their part turning up on the day of installation with a system that wont fit.

2 - Not one company to date has made reference to the house requiring a Energy Performance Certificate of d or above to qualify for the higher rate of FIT

3 - Most of the salesman have inspected the electricity meter have at my home nobody has mentioned the implications of a old analogue meter running backwards except for one on line company who has yet to make a survey.

4 - All salesman bar none have calculated a 50% energy saving on the energy we use during the day even though the household during the working week is unoccupied.

5 - All salesman bar none have estimated that the system will pay for itself within 4 - 7 years when in reality the figure is closer to 10 - 12 years.

6 - All salesman have quoted a energy inflation rate of between 10-15% in their figures as opposed to the governments DECC figure of 3%.

7 - Three companies have tried to sell me a Poly system!

8 - Only two companies have mentioned the need to fit a special(dopla) valve on the soil pipe in side the loft most will just cap it (Naughty - Naughty).

9 - High pressure sales tactics by two of the companies to get me to sign a disclaimer to waiver my 7 day cooling off period in order to qualify for a discount ( dead against MCS rules of conduct).

10 - No one has mentioned the fitting of snow guards yet all the houses with panels, one exception, have them fitted.

11 - Switching of energy suppliers (solar panel) is frowned upon by the big six energy companies according to some installers and they can be quite intimidating when switching and making FIT payments

With a product you need to last 20 years a few months taking my time to make the right choice is not a problem for me and thanks to the positive comments of most posters i`m more than happy with my progress.

Thanks SL

Congratulations on debunking more than one saleman's "terminological inexactitude'.

I think you are ready to jump now.

1 - Not getting the basic roof measurements correct - Major embarrassment on their part turning up on the day of installation with a system that wont fit.

If you ever think of building an extension, phone round the double glazing companies and see if they can do a deal on mis-measured replacement windows.

2 - Not one company to date has made reference to the house requiring a Energy Performance Certificate of D or above to qualify for the higher rate of FIT

The (legitimate?) fiddle on this one is to do the certificate after the panels have been installed, unless you live in a Nissen hut or perhaps a Victorian stone cottage, it will pass

3 - Most of the salesman have inspected the electricity meter have at my home nobody has mentioned the implications of a old analogue meter running backwards except for one on line company who has yet to make a survey.

Turn everything in the house off - pull the fuses for effect if you have them - and then film the import meter turning when the the panels are churning out 3kW.
If the muppet cannot understand that ask for Miss Piggy or Kermit.

4 - All salesman bar none have calculated a 50% energy saving on the energy we use during the day even though the household during the working week is unoccupied.

Is it part of the rules like the insurance salesman producing three projections of future growth ?

5 - All salesman bar none have estimated that the system will pay for itself within 4 - 7 years when in reality the figure is closer to 10 - 12 years.

Yes it is an annuity not simple compound interest - just like owning a coal mine - but the return in money terms is guaranteed by a near unsustainable state.

6 - All salesman have quoted a energy inflation rate of between 10-15% in their figures as opposed to the governments DECC figure of 3%.

Cheap coal and gas, without the Chinese taking up the slack (and burning it:D) ?

7 - Three companies have tried to sell me a Poly system!

This link seems to chew over the options, there are loads more similar links.

In the three years I have taken an interest, since a "greenie" friend installed on his roof, I have noticed some improvements in technology.:
Edge panels allowing optimising technology for each panel.
Non generating parts of the array being moved under the panels (ie the aluminium framing and the connecting silver strips)
Mirrored undersides to the panels to reflect any stray light back through the array.
Fancy extra layers to extract electricity from a larger spectrum of sunlight.
However just like cars better panels cost more; though the labour (& profit) part of the installation is the major factor in its cost.

http://energyinformative.org/best-solar-panel-monocrystalline-polycrystalline-thin-film/

8 - Only two companies have mentioned the need to fit a special(dopla) valve on the soil pipe in side the loft most will just cap it (Naughty - Naughty).

Isn't this also needed not, to just ventilate the sewer (so it does not fill up with methane) but to stop the rush of a flush sucking water out of U bends ?

Personally I would not want any sort of valve connected to the sewers inside my loft and would only resort to a replacement for an open stack if there proved to be a problem.

9 - High pressure sales tactics by two of the companies to get me to sign a disclaimer to waiver my 7 day cooling off period in order to qualify for a discount (dead against MCS rules of conduct).

The salesman is also trying to lock out any rival firm - in your situation (lots of companies want your business) I would not agree and have reservations about the firms involved.

10 - No one has mentioned the fitting of snow guards yet all the houses with panels, one exception, have them fitted.

Already debated this one.

11 - Switching of energy suppliers (solar panel) is frowned upon by the big six energy companies according to some installers and they can be quite intimidating when switching and making FIT payments.

Not sure of the current rules but I am pleased to avoid any suggestion of "offset" by having my accounts with two electricity suppliers - divide and rule.

I have changed suppliers - I did not even bother to mention I had PV panels.
About as relevant to the accounts clerk as admitting to having a log burner?

tunnel

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks Eric sounds a bit IF BUT/HIT or MiS to me and could get protracted. As i have already mentioned i change my energy supplier regularly(which has saved me literally thousands over 5 years at no extra cost i may add) so this could be a repeat scenario time and time again if the supplier fails to replace the meter quickly.

I`m still a bit baffled why none of the salesman have made any mention of this issue when they had a look round in the meter cabinet.

If i was the salesman i would have replied " Hey mate your on a good thing here your meter will go backwards and this means even bigger savings for you pal. Blah Blah Blah!"

Thanks

SL

Thats not an issue, once the meters changed thats it, end of. Each supplier doesn't come out and change the meter again when you move to them.

Martyn1981

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Hi Mart/Mert,

Only one installer has mentioned anything about EPC and he said he would send somebody around to assess the epc after the install. Said it would cost him around £40/£60!

My main worry regarding this meter issue would be it causing a problem when it came to changing energy supplier!

Thanks

SL

Hiya, don't worry too much about the meter, it'll get changed if there's a problem. All you really need to do is make sure you report it asap, just to cover your own back.

EPC's - have you got any idea what yours is? I didn't need one for my original install, but did for the extension. I did an on-line one from the EST's web-site as a guide. It turned out to be surprisingly accurate, so worth a look to see if it's still available.

Another way to check, and quick and simple, look on-line for any properties in your area that are for sale, and that are of similar style and age. They will/should have the EPC's as part of the 'advert'.

Also as John mentioned, the PV iteslf goes towards the EPC rating, so expect it to be little better than a similar property without PV.

Meart.

Sirlaughalot

tunnel wrote: »

Thats not an issue, once the meters changed thats it, end of. Each supplier doesn't come out and change the meter again when you move to them.

Thanks Tunnel,

But how can you move suppliers if there is an outstanding issue regarding the amount of energy you have used and the final bill? Effectively you are tying yourself into your current supplier until the issue is sorted.

Some users are still waiting to have there meters changed almost 3 years after solar panel installation. Are they still with their original energy supplier on uncompetitive rates unable to move supplier until the meter is changed.

Perhaps this may be the main reason the salesman remain tight lipped on this issue?

Thanks

SL

WestonDave

Practical experience - our meter went backwards after install in May last year. EDF forms had no mention of this until we got the contracts to sign in September at which point we notified of the back running. Took them until December to change the meter, and after some consideration decided our consumption patterns before and after the panel install (and new meter) were so different it would be hard to calculate what we owed for lost import so they just wrote it off.

However, EDF Green Team is now very much more efficient and on the ball than it was this time last year. I wouldn't be surprised if they've got this sorted much better by now so they will be on to it far sooner.

EricMears

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks Tunnel,

But how can you move suppliers if there is an outstanding issue regarding the amount of energy you have used and the final bill? Effectively you are tying yourself into your current supplier until the issue is sorted.

Some users are still waiting to have there meters changed almost 3 years after solar panel installation. Are they still with their original energy supplier on uncompetitive rates unable to move supplier until the meter is changed.

Perhaps this may be the main reason the salesman remain tight lipped on this issue?

Thanks

SL

IF an electricity company took anything like that long to sort out the issue you should have long since referred the matter to the appropriate regulatory authority !

And if their procrastination kept you an a tariff that was demonstrably worse than an alternative you could otherwise have joined, the regulator would probably insist that you were compensated for your loss. If not you could process a claim via the small claims court.

tunnel

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks Tunnel,

But how can you move suppliers if there is an outstanding issue regarding the amount of energy you have used and the final bill? Effectively you are tying yourself into your current supplier until the issue is sorted.

Some users are still waiting to have there meters changed almost 3 years after solar panel installation. Are they still with their original energy supplier on uncompetitive rates unable to move supplier until the meter is changed.

Perhaps this may be the main reason the salesman remain tight lipped on this issue?

Thanks

SL

WestonDave wrote: »

Practical experience - our meter went backwards after install in May last year. EDF forms had no mention of this until we got the contracts to sign in September at which point we notified of the back running. Took them until December to change the meter, and after some consideration decided our consumption patterns before and after the panel install (and new meter) were so different it would be hard to calculate what we owed for lost import so they just wrote it off.

However, EDF Green Team is now very much more efficient and on the ball than it was this time last year. I wouldn't be surprised if they've got this sorted much better by now so they will be on to it far sooner.

For exactly DF's response. Once you've informed them your meter is running backwards they'll be out rather sharpish. If they don't come and change the meter, worst case is they'll guess your usage,best case, like DF,any bill would prob be written off:D

Are you planning on changing supplier anytime soon?