Vent:Store staff told me they would search me

hollydays

JaymesKenin wrote: »

We actually had a non-CCTV based arrest today!
I just happened to walk out of the store, saw a chap struggling with a trolley, bags in the trolley, crisps over the top. Only thing I'm thinking is "that's just not right.".

The guy sees me and backs away from the trolley, much in a "it's not mine, mate." fashion. I get my colleague to pop a camera on him, we both approach him and the little ****** starts running! Needless to say we got him. Well, my colleague did, I'm not quite fast enough.

Little !!!!!! was trying to steal over £1,500 of CHEWING GUM! Well, the crisps, bags (not paid for!), and some drinks and such made up less than £100.

Thats great,but this could be a little worrying.

On one hand,you have thanked a post saying you should observe the rules of SCONE, (scone is a piece of cake,but its not the law)in the next breath,you have stopped someone ,with not even alarms sounding,who looked suspicious,and you have seen no selection or concealment-other posters have said you cant stop someone who just looks suspicious,and yet you have done just this?

If he went to court,how would you explain to the magistrate which power of arrest you used to stop him?You have just posted this fact on a public forum,before the case has been settled,whilst previously saying you have had no training:eek:Unless..

Dave101t

this has just reminded me, an airport store wanted to search me because i set off the alarm with my backpack and laptop bag. I told them i wasnt to to have my things searched then they suggested a coiled up wire may of set it off.
i did have one of these easily accessible so showed them that. thereafter, they just looked disapprovingly at me when i mingled and randomly set off the alarm!

mttylad

They can use reasonable force to detain you?

Under what authority can they do that?
And to what extent is "reasonable force" ?

If I am intent on leaving a store, perhaps because I have somewhere to go - I will leave the store
and no security guard or employee will be stopping me - so they would have to use excessive force.

(And no - I don't shoplift - I'm just an arrogant git )

hoppen1

blossomhill wrote: »

Can anyone point me towards a summary of my rights please, from a reputable source?

I entered a store today when as alarms went off. After a short conversation a member of staff told me "we will stop and search you when you leave"

I told her that they would not! :mad:

I left without any attempt to search me but would like to know what my rights are in such circumstances

Short post as its left me v stressed and I have a bad migraine so cant see too well to type but will elaborate later if anyone is interested

Thanks in anticipation

they have no right to search you. just tell them where to go.

eyeinthesky

mttylad wrote: »

They can use reasonable force to detain you?

Under what authority can they do that?
And to what extent is "reasonable force" ?

If I am intent on leaving a store, perhaps because I have somewhere to go - I will leave the store
and no security guard or employee will be stopping me - so they would have to use excessive force.

(And no - I don't shoplift - I'm just an arrogant git )

If you don't shoplift, then there is no chance it will happen to you! ( provided, of course, that the store security actually know their job).

The authority is provided under the Police And Criminal Evidence Act, under "any person arrest". This act has been replaced with something else, can't remember what it is called, but the relevant bits still remain.

Reasonable force is the amount of force necessary to detain you, provided that force would be considered reasonable, by a reasonable person.

JaymesKenin_2

hollydays wrote: »

Thats great,but this could be a little worrying.

On one hand,you have thanked a post saying you should observe the rules of SCONE, (scone is a piece of cake,but its not the law)in the next breath,you have stopped someone ,with not even alarms sounding,who looked suspicious,and you have seen no selection or concealment-other posters have said you cant stop someone who just looks suspicious,and yet you have done just this?

If he went to court,how would you explain to the magistrate which power of arrest you used to stop him?You have just posted this fact on a public forum,before the case has been settled,whilst previously saying you have had no training:eek:Unless..

Yes, hollydays, you are correct. I should not have *technically* approached the person without SCONE (not the way I was 'taught' but the basics are spot on there).

The problem with my store is we're a prime target for bulk shoplifters, we're literally off of a motorway roundabout.

However, the distinction in this case is: I see the person looking suspicious around a trolley which has already exited the building, the lock on the wheel has activated and the person is still trying to pull it off limits of our property.

I've then had one colleague put a camera while myself and another colleague try to find out why they are pulling the trolley away from our property (we've been told by Police we can detain for theft of the trolley if they're removed from our property because of the sheer number of signs and well marked boundaries). So, theoretically, my colleague and I aren't there to detain someone for shoplifting at this point, but as soon as this person starts running away from us while we're walking towards them from about 50 yards away I think it's pretty obvious what's happened, I mean, it's gone past suspicion at this point, waaaaaaaaaaay past.

I kept up, my colleague checked the trolley and found eight bags filled with chewing gum, fortunately the person ran straight into a stationary car, makes our lives way easier! :rotfl:

Oh, I never said we phoned the Police, and therefore there may not even be a criminal case (even if there was, I haven't disclosed any personal information).

Starting a non-CCTV based arrest is not something I take lightly at all, in fact, I think I've done maybe a dozen across my entire Security career, which is half a decade! If I'm going to do it, I'm going to be 100% sure that the person if guilty of a crime and I can deal with the CCTV later.

I realise this sounds a tad crazy, but perhaps eyeinthesky will back me up, or anyone in the retail security industry can, sometimes these types of actions are necessary.

P.S. While the ending was happy, unfortunately before this one ran into a parked car they got quite a distance... my knee is killing me today! I'm too old for this!!

Yorkie1

eyeinthesky wrote: »

The authority is provided under the Police And Criminal Evidence Act, under "any person arrest". This act has been replaced with something else, can't remember what it is called, but the relevant bits still remain.

Reasonable force is the amount of force necessary to detain you, provided that force would be considered reasonable, by a reasonable person.

PACE 1984 still exists, it has not been replaced. It's s.24A as previously posted for an arrest by any other person (i.e. not a constable). http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/24A

The definition of reasonable force is contained in s.76 Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/section/76

It is not judged according to what the reasonable man in the street judged to be necessary, but according to what the suspect / defendant believed to be necessary.

eyeinthesky

JaymesKenin wrote: »

I realise this sounds a tad crazy, but perhaps eyeinthesky will back me up, (

Sometimes you just have to go with it, lol. Sometimes you just know that something isn't right, so you can try a little bluff, like staring directly at someone while saying "rhubarb, rhubarb" into your radio, lol. Amazing how often this works, and the person will not leave the store, but will go around again and dump the concealed items.

A good cctv system will ensure you have captured most incidents, or at least the important parts. This is where fixed cameras come into their own, and this has allowed us to produce video evidence days after a theft. I really love my job

eyeinthesky

Yorkie1 wrote: »

PACE 1984 still exists, it has not been replaced. It's s.24A as previously posted for an arrest by any other person (i.e. not a constable). http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/24A

The definition of reasonable force is contained in s.76 Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/section/76

It is not judged according to what the reasonable man in the street judged to be necessary, but according to what the suspect / defendant believed to be necessary.

Your quote on reasonable force deals with self defence, in the any person arrest, the reasonable force is based on what the person making the arrest feels is necessary, and this can only be judged by what a reasonable person would think is necessary. Even if the force used could be considered excessive, a judge would be be reluctant to rule it so, given the obvious benefit of the public helping to keep crime down.

CWCDiver

My cuffs and baton set off an alarm in court today, made me think of this thread. I hadn't stolen anything though.