Vent:Store staff told me they would search me

hollydays

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

Okey dokey , in the scenario you mentioned earlier (quoted below)- how is this communicated to you when the suspect is leaving and what type of items are involved assuming the tag alarm covers tagged items and you rely on the tag alarm for tagged items and not the dougnut mentioned by another poster



What method do you use for CCTV detected incidents , when you wish to challenge people leaving the store ?

That's hardly fair,I never called you a doughnut.

JaymesKenin_2

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

Okey dokey , in the scenario you mentioned earlier (quoted below)- how is this communicated to you when the suspect is leaving and what type of items are involved assuming the tag alarm covers tagged items and you rely on the tag alarm for tagged items and not the dougnut mentioned by another poster

We're a team of at least three people (dependant on the (time of) day), up to six of us.

We are all employed directly by the company, we all have two-way radios.

In any given scenario either the CCTV operator or the person who has access to the CCTV terminal at the main door will see and maintain continuous observation of selection, concealment, non-payment and exit. The CCTV operator will had already informed his colleagues that he is watching (a) suspicious person(s), what they're doing, when and where they're doing it and which door they will be exiting from, plus of course their description. This means that we will have people waiting outside of the store waiting. At no point do we rely on the E.A.S. gates activating during an incident as we know how easy it is to prevent the E.A.S gates from being activated - we have continuous observation of the suspect to know that they still have goods on them unpaid for.

I have only ever stopped ONE person based solely on E.A.S activation, when a female carried out two bags of video games, she activated the E.A.S. alarms, I *happened* to approached her from outside of the store, peered into her bag and noticed all of the games in cases. That's clear cut enough for me.

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

What method do you use for CCTV detected incidents , when you wish to challenge people leaving the store ?

I'm confused, what do you mean by "What method do you use for CCTV detected incidents"? I'll try and answer but feel free to ask for clarification.

We only challenge people who we know have unpaid for items in their possession once they have exited the store, otherwise it would have to be considered "attempted theft", and the CPS hate that.

JaymesKenin_2

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

I doubt that many of the people stopped using this method are guilty of anything

This is very true. Mostly the E.A.S. gates are activated because the checkout operator forgot to or did not see a security tag on the item that was purchased. Security tags are pretty much there to deter theft, NOT prevent it.

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

If more than one person is leaving when the alarm sounds the security guards seem to know who to target

It's helped when you can tell which one of the (in our case) four gates are being activated, whichever one is detecting the tag will flash red and make a distinctive high pitched noise while the rest make a generic alarm noise.

JaymesKenin_2

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

In most cases do you find the object responsible for acivating the alarm ?


I am currious to know how you test that the E.A.S alarms are working - do you place a tagged item near the gate or have a button to test it ?

The vast majority of time, yes. There are rare occasions where the customer will refuse and that's okay as far as I'm concerned. As I said, most E.A.S. activations are by genuine customers so they'll come back when they've figured out they can't wear the item of clothing! :rotfl:

We test the gates by walking though with tags. No buttons involved.
Hypothetically, if we had buttons to trigger E.A.S. alarms and we used them we could just as easily be done for entrapment if we used them as and when we felt like it.

bowdengr37

I'd like to know where JaymesKenin works. I mean what town, because I'm off to his shop.

He says that he can only use minimum force, but also says that he can not use physical force because it would be assault.

I've never met a proper Jedi Knight before.

blossomhill_2

Ok folks – the full story, pretty much as I remember it.
I entered store at same time as another person, as alarms went off.

Loud female voice from back of store shouted “In or out?”
Another voice, presumably till-person shouted back “In”

I was met halfway up aisle by unidentified woman
She asked politely “excuse me, have you any make up or jewellery in your bags as our alarms went off when you came in.”

I replied “yes I have makeup” in puzzled tone

She said politely “would you mind if I went through your bag and de-tag the makeup if it needs it so it doesn’t set the alarms again”
[Note: her going through my bag, no offer to establish first if it was me, my bag or the other person setting off the alarm, or to suggest I looked for culprit item in my own bag] [also note phrase “going through”, not “look in”]

I said “yes I would mind” about to say “but I’ll show you the makeup” when she went all aggro and said in a churlish tone “then we’ll stop and search you on your way out!”

I said “you don’t need to do that” about to say that we could check if it was my bag at fault when she said even more churlishly “We do! It’s our system!”

I said calmly but firmly “you don’t need to do that, you have CCTV there and can see that I have just walked straight in”

She said in churlish almost robotic voice “we will search you, it’s our system” [Note she was no longer referring to after I leave the shop, she meant now”]

I said “you won’t search me” [Note she had not identified herself, was not in a security guard uniform, or explained who the “we” who were going to search me were. And it was now search me not my bag]

I said “I will just leave then” and walked calmly out

Did the alarms go off as I left – Hell no!

Did she or "they" question or stop and search the other person, I doubt it.

I would of course have consented to a police search after reasonable efforts had been made to establish if my bag or its contents were at fault. I am pretty sure the police would have found no grounds to search me, as going through an alarm loop while the alarms went of is not an offence

Compare with : The alarms had gone off as I passed through them with many other people in Sainsbury the day before, as I left. I hesitated and moved towards the guard who politely asked “excuse me have you purchased any electrical items” I said “no but I have bought clothing” he said “ok then no worries” and waved me off. I said “are you sure, they may have a tag on” he said with a smile “no problem” I said “if you are sure” and went off smiling
2 different approaches; 2 different experiences of how stores deal with customers.

I wanted to know my rights in case it happened again at any time in the future and I was threatened with being searched without being given the chance to volunteer to establish what the cause was.

I probably won’t discuss this much more on here as it’s hard to keep up with all the assumptions being made

liney

Not to imply that this is what you did, but wouldn't 'accidently' setting off the alarm on the way in be perfect cover for a shop lifter to leave a store with an 'only me again' wave? Surely this is the reason to request a search?

JaymesKenin_2

bowdengr37 wrote: »

I'd like to know where JaymesKenin works. I mean what town, because I'm off to his shop.

He says that he can only use minimum force, but also says that he can not use physical force because it would be assault.

I've never met a proper Jedi Knight before.

Maybe I didn't make myself very clear, sorry. We can use minimum/justifiable/reasonable (they're really one and the same) force to detain a shoplifter. We won't touch anyone who is not a shoplifter.

Technically, touching a shoplifter as an offence is committed is still assault, but it's justifiable.

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

Yes - I suggest that is why they do not dislose this function , although I would ask if you have ever held any suspicion that they may have this function (the main CCTV room - not the guard operated one ) at any time in your career

If not then I am sure you will do some digging when you are next in the store

(If I was entirely paranoid then I would suggest that they use facial recognition and I doubt that they do)

Again, must've not made myself clear. I do operate CCTV from the CCTV office, we have no button to activate the E.A.S. gates, even if we did, experience teaches us that shoplifters don't stop for the alarm! (Usually the only people that stop for the alarm are the people who have NOTHING on them!! :mad:)

blossomhill wrote: »

Compare with : The alarms had gone off as I passed through them with many other people in Sainsbury the day before, as I left. I hesitated and moved towards the guard who politely asked “excuse me have you purchased any electrical items” I said “no but I have bought clothing” he said “ok then no worries” and waved me off. I said “are you sure, they may have a tag on” he said with a smile “no problem” I said “if you are sure” and went off smiling

Quite right, too. Although I personally would've asked you to show me the clothing to make sure that there wasn't any tags, as you might get it all home, live 20 minutes away and have to come back if I didn't!

JaymesKenin_2

liney wrote: »

Not to imply that this is what you did, but wouldn't 'accidently' setting off the alarm on the way in be perfect cover for a shop lifter to leave a store with an 'only me again' wave? Surely this is the reason to request a search?

It would, it is and it gets used, a lot. Fortunately it's a very common plan oft used by really useless shoplifters.

hollydays

blossomhill wrote: »

Ok folks – the full story, pretty much as I remember it.
I entered store at same time as another person, as alarms went off.

Loud female voice from back of store shouted “In or out?”
Another voice, presumably till-person shouted back “In”

I was met halfway up aisle by unidentified woman
She asked politely “excuse me, have you any make up or jewellery in your bags as our alarms went off when you came in.”

I replied “yes I have makeup” in puzzled tone

She said politely “would you mind if I went through your bag and de-tag the makeup if it needs it so it doesn’t set the alarms again”
[Note: her going through my bag, no offer to establish first if it was me, my bag or the other person setting off the alarm, or to suggest I looked for culprit item in my own bag] [also note phrase “going through”, not “look in”]

I said “yes I would mind” about to say “but I’ll show you the makeup” when she went all aggro and said in a churlish tone “then we’ll stop and search you on your way out!”

I said “you don’t need to do that” about to say that we could check if it was my bag at fault when she said even more churlishly “We do! It’s our system!”

I said calmly but firmly “you don’t need to do that, you have CCTV there and can see that I have just walked straight in”

She said in churlish almost robotic voice “we will search you, it’s our system” [Note she was no longer referring to after I leave the shop, she meant now”]

I said “you won’t search me” [Note she had not identified herself, was not in a security guard uniform, or explained who the “we” who were going to search me were. And it was now search me not my bag]

I said “I will just leave then” and walked calmly out

Did the alarms go off as I left – Hell no!

Did she or "they" question or stop and search the other person, I doubt it.

I would of course have consented to a police search after reasonable efforts had been made to establish if my bag or its contents were at fault. I am pretty sure the police would have found no grounds to search me, as going through an alarm loop while the alarms went of is not an offence

Compare with : The alarms had gone off as I passed through them with many other people in Sainsbury the day before, as I left. I hesitated and moved towards the guard who politely asked “excuse me have you purchased any electrical items” I said “no but I have bought clothing” he said “ok then no worries” and waved me off. I said “are you sure, they may have a tag on” he said with a smile “no problem” I said “if you are sure” and went off smiling
2 different approaches; 2 different experiences of how stores deal with customers.

I wanted to know my rights in case it happened again at any time in the future and I was threatened with being searched without being given the chance to volunteer to establish what the cause was.

I probably won’t discuss this much more on here as it’s hard to keep up with all the assumptions being made

I think I would have dealt with it the same, well done.
I think the thread has been hijacked by someone who is determined to prove there is a secret button no-one knows about that people press to set off the alarms so they can stop people.Who would press this button,bearing in mind its secret,is anyones guess.Conspiracy theories..