How Do I Tell Him? help with OH

Fire_Fox

PerfectParadox wrote: »

I have been with my boyfriend for a while now, and we keep talking about the future, moving in together, babies (long way off) and such.
We are even having a commitment ceremony come end of august at ,which point we plan to get a flat. (Bit odd not to live toegether after doing a big do-dad with all our family there). This is not my problem.

My problem has a few legs I guess. But the one that agrivates me most and I don't know how to talk to him about is.
1. he never has money left at the end of the week.
I love him to bits, but I want to strangle him when, like clockwork, thursday (occasionally its wednesday and once or twice tuesday) rolls round and he is skint. He gets paid weekly, and I know he is earning similar to what I used to earn, But he doesnt save.
Last night (being thursday night) he asked for cash to go buy wine and bread (both clearly required for dinner) This week we have not gone out, used up left overs in the cupboards, And things that we did do. I paid for mostly. And still, he is out of cash.

2. he forgets that I'm not earning
I lost/walked out of my job a month ago. Yes i know. Rash and probably not a good idea, but I did it because I didn't see many other options. When I was earning we splitt things nicely with me paying for things for the first 2 weeks of the month and him for the latter two weeks (I got paid monthly, him weekly) But I still Managed to put payments towards my CC, paid my rent, put some money into savings/rainy day fund and I let myself have treats. Lots of them. And I still never went "skint".
now I am using up said rainy day fund to pay off CC and to get by frugally, but it still feels like I'm providing the lions share of paying for things, and the fact that I have a CC debt that I fret about doesn't concern him.

I know i need to get a job and start building my savings up, But how do I tell him that I need him to do the same.
any advice on how to get him to see that I don't understand where his money goes? or is it none of my bussiness and I'm being controlling? I'm sure some of it is me too... just can't get perspective.

Something does not add up here. He has a company flat which he pays rent for, yet is not permitted to have overnight guests? I read that as either (a) he has a tenancy agreement and is paying market rent, in which case the law sees the flat as his own home. A landlord cannot then set unreasonable rules for how the tenant conducts their personal affairs nor can an employer. Or (b) he is not paying market rent in which case he should be able to afford to contribute to the food he eats whilst staying with you.

Given that he spends 80% of his spare time at yours, and, presumably, eight hours a night sleeping, 40+ hours a week working or travelling to work I cannot see how he could spend a full time wage without you knowing. If you REALLY cannot work it out then quite honestly you may need to consider there are deeper problems. Is it possible he is supporting a child you are not aware of? Weekend drug habit, online gambling, sex chat lines, secret debts from when he was with the ex, boys toys? This to me is the root of the problem.

Wine and bread are NOT essential to a meal, you can eat pasta or potatoes or rice or lentils or noodles or bake your own bread. Granted you may have to adjust what you cook and the meal might taste a little unusual, but that is part of the learning process. Saying you need bread reads to me as an excuse for not confronting the issue at hand which is that the two of you have an unhealthy relationship as regards money. Whilst there are no consequences to his actions he will continue to ask to be subbed; every time you agree you are 'enabling' to use dependency terminology.

If you find it difficult to say no over something as trivial as a loan for non-essential groceries and are "not allowed" to mention the ex, I struggle to see how you will conduct an equal partnership over the long term. I suddenly wonder whether part of the reason he is so keen to move in is that you are a combined doormat and cashpoint, perhaps just like the ex? I very much hope that is not the case.

make_me_wise

Does he have debt that you are unaware of? Could this be where most of his money is going? Talk to him and sort this out. Having a vastly different approach to finances can cause problems later on.

Fire_Fox

PerfectParadox wrote: »

every time i bring up that maybe we need to sit down and budget for the handfasting, or saving for our holiday, or just general money talk about savings and goals he agrees yes we need to talk about this... but then we don't. Then I feel like the narc for nagging on about it.
If and when I do suggest some ideas to help us cut costs eg) instead of buying 4-5 bottles of wine a week -which I could afford when i was working- now just buying 2 or a bottle of spirit and some cola he squiggles slightly and then if I break my own rules (by having more than 2 small glasses of wine with dinner for example which is one of my rules. ) he points it out and demonishes me for it.

guess I'm just a bit of a control nut. it is his money. I just dont like it when it comes to things like getting the bus home and we're getting on the bus, and he then informs me that he thort i knew he was out of cash and that I was paying for both bus tickets.... that just doesnt seem fair

If you are routinely paying for the groceries then you don't have to discuss how many bottles of wine you buy, just don't buy ANY alcohol next week and let HIM be the one to bring up finances. If you shop together and he puts wine in the trolley, when you get to the till put the wine on the conveyor as a separate transaction. If he doesn't have enough money tell him there is not enough in your current account either as you unemployed. If you get on the bus and he has no cash, don't make a fuss just say "oh well, we will walk then" and get off the bus. Not everything needs deep and meaningful discussions, especially not with a man of few words. You tell us you are trying to budget, yet you are not walking the walk and talking the talk.

And !!!!!! is that about not knowing he had a girlfriend for eight months? Were you just casual acquaintances or rather more? I don't grill my friends or long-term partners about their past or present relationships but I know the basics and the subject is not taboo.

ViolaLass

Hang on, he wants to send out invitations for the handfasting but you haven't talked about the budget for it. You also suggest that you haven't yet saved up for a deposit for a place together - do you mean a rental deposit? What are you waiting for?

There are so many questions about how he lives and spends his money, can it really be that you don't know the answers to at least some of them? I would expect to, if I were in your position.

PerfectParadox

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Something does not add up here. He has a company flat which he pays rent for, yet is not permitted to have overnight guests? I read that as either (a) he has a tenancy agreement and is paying market rent, in which case the law sees the flat as his own home. A landlord cannot then set unreasonable rules for how the tenant conducts their personal affairs nor can an employer. Or (b) he is not paying market rent in which case he should be able to afford to contribute to the food he eats whilst staying with you.

without naming companys My OH works for a pub, which is part of a chain of pubs, he lives in company accomadation.
to get to said flat, you have to go into the back of the pub which reuires the security codes and such, and the flat door is near pub offices.
The rule has recently changed or "relaxed" saying I'm allowed up in the flat as long as I'm not left in there on my own. But not allowed to stay the night. Its company rules.
his rent is apparently "reduced" (he never likes talking about actual amounts) but he has to have a slight pay cut at the same time because tis company accomadation, and pay into a bond upto the amount of £1000. Only other things I know about is council tax and his student loan.

I can safely say that he has no children. Any drugs he dabbled in are not an issue (as youve pointed out he spends a majority of his time with me, Id notice if he was still dabbling.) He doesn't gamble, the only thing he does admit to spending alot fags i guess. which is about a 20-40 day habit. I honestly don't understand what his money goes on so that it runs out. Hes not one for new clothes or boys bling. he doesnt even buy DVDS. (all dvds he did own were join owned by him and ex and he "can't be arsed to figure out who technically owns what".... this expression is used alot to explain why certain things I knew he used to own are no longer in his possesion.

sigh. I'm not a walkover as much as i'm sure I'm sounding. He is an amazing guy and its just money we dont seem to comunicate about. everything else is openly discussed. Money has always been a headache in my household (since i was a kid) turns out its becoming a migraine.

ViolaLass

PerfectParadox wrote: »

... this expression is used alot to explain why certain things I knew he used to own are no longer in his possesion...

Selling his possessions to pay off debts?

PerfectParadox

Fire_Fox wrote: »

And !!!!!! is that about not knowing he had a girlfriend for eight months? Were you just casual acquaintances or rather more? I don't grill my friends or long-term partners about their past or present relationships but I know the basics and the subject is not taboo.

how me and he met and (eventually) got together is a complicated story that rivals hollyoaks+eastenders
it involves meeting him while "they were on a break" and then him not telling me she exsisted while I tried to work out if he liked me or not. (this was years ago when I was still a teenager) They broke up not due to me but for their own reasons. he never liked talking about it or her with me. their relationship + money are the two no go ones for conversation.

I have known him years.
And the handfasting is complicated. alot of my family have turn around with very generous offers to help, so cost wise it will come down to very little if its done right. I think if im honest hes used to me being miss party planner and doesnt get how much needs to go into planning it to make it happen. Its bugging me but I don't know how to bring it up without making it sound like i want out of the handffasting (cos i dont) or like im attacking him.
know that i need to be honest and have these conversations, I guess just once again I'm concerned about how to broach them without turning them into fights.

PerfectParadox

ViolaLass wrote: »

You also suggest that you haven't yet saved up for a deposit for a place together - do you mean a rental deposit? What are you waiting for?
.

I have earmarked a proportion of my savings for deposit/first months rent but once again I just dont want to feel like its all my money. again.

ViolaLass

PerfectParadox wrote: »

I have earmarked a proportion of my savings for deposit/first months rent but once again I just don't want to feel like its all my money. again.

But you're meant to be moving in with him in September so what are you waiting for? You (plural) have to discuss it and soon.

Edit: overly harsh and stating the obvious - really what I was trying to say is what Fire Fox said in the next post. My guess is that there are debts he's not telling you about (when was the house sold?). In any case, you have every right to know what's going on and there's no way that I would be binding myself to someone who wasn't prepared to discuss these matters with me.

Fire_Fox

PerfectParadox wrote: »

I can safely say that he has no children. Any drugs he dabbled in are not an issue (as youve pointed out he spends a majority of his time with me, Id notice if he was still dabbling.) He doesn't gamble, the only thing he does admit to spending alot fags i guess. which is about a 20-40 day habit. I honestly don't understand what his money goes on so that it runs out. Hes not one for new clothes or boys bling. he doesnt even buy DVDS. (all dvds he did own were join owned by him and ex and he "can't be arsed to figure out who technically owns what".... this expression is used alot to explain why certain things I knew he used to own are no longer in his possesion.

sigh. I'm not a walkover as much as i'm sure I'm sounding. He is an amazing guy and its just money we dont seem to comunicate about. everything else is openly discussed. Money has always been a headache in my household (since i was a kid) turns out its becoming a migraine.

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" Sherlock Holmes (The Sign of the Four)

Run a search on these boards, there have been cases of husbands with a gambling addiction, a serious cocaine habit, an affair running for years where the wife had no idea. Either there is a debt or a child from that relationship or you are being taken for the ride of your life. The money is going somewhere as is the property he is making excuses about. TBH I find it difficult to believe he joint owned anything with someone who earned massively more, and his apparent money management skills! Not every parent who pays child-support has a relationship with them.

Money is not a 'just' it's a large part of any long term live-in relationship, massively so when you have children. Being in love, finding one another physically attractive or having the same interests means very little; it's rare you are still in love or jumping each other bones regularly for the whole of the rest of your lives and your tastes will change. You will go through phases of living as best friends, living as housemates, living as parents of the same child who may as well be divorced, times you are completely dependent on him and times you are madly in love all over again.

Sorry to appear harsh it's easy to see things differently from the outside, we do care here on MSE and I certainly hope you stick around to find out and give others the benefit of your experience in the future. :A