Public Sector Strikes

RobertoMoir

Rotor wrote: »

When it's gone down PAST the level most other people can expect to receive. Even with these changes it is still a silver plated deal , far better than most will receive, just not as good as it was.
I want equality with the private sector not for public sector to be treated worse.

I'm all for equality. If my pension drops down so that its equal to what I might expect in the private sector then I hope my wage will increase so that its equal to what my job is worth in the private sector - another £10k please!

Oddly enough if that happened, my "total compensation package" would remain about the same as it is now. Still the main thing is that the country would save money... oh wait no it wouldn't... the main thing is that a few bitter people who don't want to understand the whole picture about govt. worker compensation would feel better about themselves.

Two things spring to mind in this debate - firstly, some public sector workers don't appreciate the good things they do have, and I can see why that irritates others. Hell, it irritates me. And secondly, for all the talk of "gold plated" and digs like "ahem hard working" most of the people outside the public sector commentating on this issue don't understand the issues they are talking about.

System

I believe the day after the strike (Friday 1st of July) its the annual MOD sports day. This is where they basically don't do any work and play rounders, football, volleyball etc. I wonder why they decided not to strike on that day? Its a hard life working in the public sector :-)

Flyboy152

goater78 wrote: »

I believe the day after the strike (Friday 1st of July) its the annual MOD sports day. This is where they basically don't do any work and play rounders, football, volleyball etc. I wonder why they decided not to strike on that day? Its a hard life working in the public sector :-)

I doubt very much that the strike for hundreds and thousands of people have been manipulated to work around one department's sports day.

Rotor

RobertoMoir wrote: »

I'm all for equality. If my pension drops down so that its equal to what I might expect in the private sector then I hope my wage will increase so that its equal to what my job is worth in the private sector - another £10k please!

Oddly enough if that happened, my "total compensation package" would remain about the same as it is now. Still the main thing is that the country would save money... oh wait no it wouldn't... the main thing is that a few bitter people who don't want to understand the whole picture about govt. worker compensation would feel better about themselves.

Two things spring to mind in this debate - firstly, some public sector workers don't appreciate the good things they do have, and I can see why that irritates others. Hell, it irritates me. And secondly, for all the talk of "gold plated" and digs like "ahem hard working" most of the people outside the public sector commentating on this issue don't understand the issues they are talking about.

Very public sector.
And you just 'know' you're worth £10000 more do you?
What would happen is you would resign from your job for a job paying 10k more (if you could get it). They would attempt to fill your current position with someone of the same calibre and if you are right and this is not possible they would be forced to increase the salary offered.

Welcome to market forces

Not the union way I know ; which is more like " we're worth this , if you don't agree we damage the company (private sector) or cause disruption and damage to the country( public sector)

Rotor

What I should have added to my post above is that it is aa absolute myth that public sector workers are underpaid compared to the public sector.
It is the deliberate failure to see how high the worth of final salary pensions are that annoys.
Previous posts have have used the 'you're stupid and wrong - la la la not listening' style of debate when i have quoted sourced figuresfor pension costs ; well here are some more that even the most insulated cost deny-er can check.

Any of the quality sunday papers will have a table of the annuity a fund will get. A £100,000 POT wilbuy a 60 year old female an inflation linked annuity (i.e each year for life) of £2990
So to get a pension of £18000 a pot of £600,000 needs to be accrued. All this whilst paying increased taxes to fund public sector final salary pensions.
That is what your pensions are worth and will cost and that is why the private sector is so bl00dy CROSS!

real1314

Rotor wrote: »

What I should have added to my post above is that it is aa absolute myth that public sector workers are underpaid compared to the public sector.
It is the deliberate failure to see how high the worth of final salary pensions are that annoys.
Previous posts have have used the 'you're stupid and wrong - la la la not listening' style of debate when i have quoted sourced figuresfor pension costs ; well here are some more that even the most insulated cost deny-er can check.

Any of the quality sunday papers will have a table of the annuity a fund will get. A £100,000 POT wilbuy a 60 year old female an inflation linked annuity (i.e each year for life) of £2990
So to get a pension of £18000 a pot of £600,000 needs to be accrued. All this whilst paying increased taxes to fund public sector final salary pensions.
That is what your pensions are worth and will cost and that is why the private sector is so bl00dy CROSS!

The vast majority of the civil service is employed at AO grade (salary £18k-ish) or EO grade (£22k-ish) and get a 50% salary pension for 40 years employment. These grades make up over 80% of the workforce.

Based on your annuity figures, that would need a pot of £300k for the AO at £9k pa.
Assuming 5% growth (fairly reasonable long term) this would require £125 a month, of which older employees contribute about 18% of the cost, leaving about £100 a month for the employer to cover.
£1200 a year. New employees in the last 5 years pay twice the contribution, only about £80 a month / £960 a year for the employer.

The EO would be £367k at £11k pa. It ends up with about £125 a month / £1500 a year for older employees or £100 a month / £1200 a year for newer ones.

Can't private sector employees manage to sort themselves out int his way? :cool:

Rotor

You sure?
Found this which doesn't tally with your figures http://transparency.number10.gov.uk/resources/geo-chart.pdf
i know it's only one dept. but it suggests your figures don't add up
Can you post your source so I can have look. Thanks

sharnad

Rotor wrote: »

You sure?
Found this which doesn't tally with your figures http://transparency.number10.gov.uk/resources/geo-chart.pdf
i know it's only one dept. but it suggests your figures don't add up
Can you post your source so I can have look. Thanks

Your right the figures look to high. Public sector pensions are lower

Leebobs

I will not strike to stop the government putting both my and my partners contributions up by about 50% (as a 3.2% increase would be to my current 6.5% contribution rate - it is exactly 50% of my partners 6.4%). We will just withdraw from the scheme and put the money we save (about £200 a month taking account of the income tax and Ni increases) into mortgage overpayments.

Striking isn't the answer to this problem. The increased contributions are not destined to go into a pot of money saved up for pension provision (not even in the LGPS which is fully funded - At the moment), they are going to paying down the deficit.

If everyone in the Public Sector with less than 10 years contributions (like myself) or who isn't close to retirement (like myself) withdraw en masse the deficit will get larger and this government will have a bigger headache. A larger deficit now and even more people who are "inadequately" saving for their retirement to deal with in the future.

You want to stick it to the man, don't be complicit in his changes - because quite frankly, the coalition is not going to U-Turn on this issue - neither the Conservatives nor the Lib Dems are friends of the unions.

Indicate to your employer and your MP that if these increases in contributions go ahead you will withdraw from the scheme.

As to the other changes:
1. Linking to CPI
2. Career Average rather than final salary
3. Linking to state retirement age

I have no objections to these at all. They are necessary changes to pension provision which is, as it stands, an unrealistic expectation. But don't expect anyone to pay more for worse pension provision.

Leebobs

Flyboy152

Leebobs wrote: »

I will not strike to stop the government putting both my and my partners contributions up by about 50% (as a 3.2% increase would be to my current 6.5% contribution rate - it is exactly 50% of my partners 6.4%). We will just withdraw from the scheme and put the money we save (about £200 a month taking account of the income tax and Ni increases) into mortgage overpayments.

Striking isn't the answer to this problem. The increased contributions are not destined to go into a pot of money saved up for pension provision (not even in the LGPS which is fully funded - At the moment), they are going to paying down the deficit.

If everyone in the Public Sector with less than 10 years contributions (like myself) or who isn't close to retirement (like myself) withdraw en masse the deficit will get larger and this government will have a bigger headache. A larger deficit now and even more people who are "inadequately" saving for their retirement to deal with in the future.

You want to stick it to the man, don't be complicit in his changes - because quite frankly, the coalition is not going to U-Turn on this issue - neither the Conservatives nor the Lib Dems are friends of the unions.

Indicate to your employer and your MP that if these increases in contributions go ahead you will withdraw from the scheme.

As to the other changes:
1. Linking to CPI
2. Career Average rather than final salary
3. Linking to state retirement age

I have no objections to these at all. They are necessary changes to pension provision which is, as it stands, an unrealistic expectation. But don't expect anyone to pay more for worse pension provision.

Leebobs

A very selfish attitude to take, in my opinion.