Public Sector Strikes

RobertoMoir

Rotor wrote: »

Very public sector.
And you just 'know' you're worth £10000 more do you?

Well about that, yes. As it happens I'm a professional and I work in a particular field as professionals tend to do, and I happen to know the salary range for my profession under certain circumstances, like any professional who is interested in their career would do.

So yes, I know what I'm worth, and I don't see why you have a problem with that. As you apparently think every single public sector worker lives in cloud cuckoo land, I should have thought you might be delighted to find out that at least one takes a vague interest in the world outside their office window.

What would happen is you would resign from your job for a job paying 10k more (if you could get it). They would attempt to fill your current position with someone of the same calibre and if you are right and this is not possible they would be forced to increase the salary offered.

Welcome to market forces

Wow. And I thought I could be a patronising !!! at times. Thank you for this valuable observation. Are you like Robert Peston's superhero identity or something?

Not the union way I know ; which is more like " we're worth this , if you don't agree we damage the company (private sector) or cause disruption and damage to the country( public sector)

Not sure where this came from. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the current lot of public sector strikes, are you saying that people shouldn't have the right to strike at all? Because that's every bit as dangerous a road as we were walking down back in the days when the unions ruled the roost.

What I should have added to my post above

As you're adding this as a follow-on to your previous post I assume its still a reply to me.

is that it is aa absolute myth that public sector workers are underpaid compared to the public sector.

Some are, some are not. As you say, market forces.

It is the deliberate failure to see how high the worth of final salary pensions are that annoys.
Previous posts have have used the 'you're stupid and wrong - la la la not listening' style of debate when i have quoted sourced figuresfor pension costs ; well here are some more that even the most insulated cost deny-er can check.

Speaking of a "'not listening' style of debate", you're making this point as a reply to me despite my explicit comment about the failure of some of my "colleagues" to appreciate precisely that fact.

So what's your point? All I'm hearing is a lot of ranting. Personally from where I'm sitting that doesn't make much more sense than those public sector workers who don't realise the value of what they have, and adds equally as little to the debate as they do.

KME91

OK I'm a public sector worker and a union rep for PCS, one of the unions going on strike on 30th june, and I'd like to correct some misconceptions.

Firstly we will not be getting paid for going on strike, either by the employer or the union, there is no strike pay at all in PCS, we will lose the days pay, end of. no idea what the other unions are doing but that's where we are.

Secondly we are going on strike because we feel we need to defend our contractually agreed pensions from cuts. The day I started work I signed a contract agreeing the terms of my pension. That contract is now on the verge of being breached to fund a deficit which is actually no worse than the one in existence at the time when the government of the time launched the welfare state.

Thirdly this is not just about pensions. we want to deliver services. we believe in what we do. people don't join the civil service, or become teachers, or wildlife wardens, or social workers, for the money or for the fun of it. we believe that this country needs and deserves the services we provide and we are very very worried about where this country will be left if those services are lost.

Finally, it is a fundamental right of the worker to withdraw their labour when the situation becomes intolerable. this right is enshrined in law, and the trade union movement fights to protect that right under ever increasing attacks. to lose that right would mean that we are essentially subject to a form of slavery. agree to whatever the employer says or lose your job, worse still quit over this and be prosecuted for breach of contract! wages cut by half? deadly working conditions? holidays slashed? tough.

The divide and conquer approach of the media and government is something that should be questioned at every opportunity. so you work in the private sector? Your pension currently is not as good as mine? your terms and conditions are rubbish? you don't have a union to join? I have news for you. that's not my fault either as a civil servant or a union member. It's your fault, but there's plenty you can do about it. you want a better pension? stand up and fight for it. You want decent terms and conditions? Likewise. you want your colleagues to back you up on this so you're not on your own? well that's a union. go for it. I am more than willing to stand alongside you and help you. we as workers have as much control as the employer does in these things if we stand together.

The media is demanding a race to the bottom. my pension's better than yours, therefore mine should be brought down to meet yours. How does that benefit society in the end? short term narrow minded thinking, which doesn't help anyone. oh hang on, that's what they're accusing unions of.......

gregg1

KME91 wrote: »

OK I'm a public sector worker and a union rep for PCS, one of the unions going on strike on 30th june, and I'd like to correct some misconceptions.

Firstly we will not be getting paid for going on strike, either by the employer or the union, there is no strike pay at all in PCS, we will lose the days pay, end of. no idea what the other unions are doing but that's where we are.

Secondly we are going on strike because we feel we need to defend our contractually agreed pensions from cuts. The day I started work I signed a contract agreeing the terms of my pension. That contract is now on the verge of being breached to fund a deficit which is actually no worse than the one in existence at the time when the government of the time launched the welfare state.

Thirdly this is not just about pensions. we want to deliver services. we believe in what we do. people don't join the civil service, or become teachers, or wildlife wardens, or social workers, for the money or for the fun of it. we believe that this country needs and deserves the services we provide and we are very very worried about where this country will be left if those services are lost.

Finally, it is a fundamental right of the worker to withdraw their labour when the situation becomes intolerable. this right is enshrined in law, and the trade union movement fights to protect that right under ever increasing attacks. to lose that right would mean that we are essentially subject to a form of slavery. agree to whatever the employer says or lose your job, worse still quit over this and be prosecuted for breach of contract! wages cut by half? deadly working conditions? holidays slashed? tough.

The divide and conquer approach of the media and government is something that should be questioned at every opportunity. so you work in the private sector? Your pension currently is not as good as mine? your terms and conditions are rubbish? you don't have a union to join? I have news for you. that's not my fault either as a civil servant or a union member. It's your fault, but there's plenty you can do about it. you want a better pension? stand up and fight for it. You want decent terms and conditions? Likewise. you want your colleagues to back you up on this so you're not on your own? well that's a union. go for it. I am more than willing to stand alongside you and help you. we as workers have as much control as the employer does in these things if we stand together.

The media is demanding a race to the bottom. my pension's better than yours, therefore mine should be brought down to meet yours. How does that benefit society in the end? short term narrow minded thinking, which doesn't help anyone. oh hang on, that's what they're accusing unions of.......

One of the best posts so far on this forum

Andy_L

2gorgeousgirls wrote: »

Not all public sector workers are on excellent pensions. Teachers, police, medical professions may be, senior civil servants definitely are but ordinary civil servants are not. Hubby has worked in civil service for 24 years. At present his predicted pension will be slightly over £100 pw, not a lot.

hmm. Rough calculations mean either your husband is on £17k after 24 years working for the same employer or has spent some of that 24 years as a part timer. Oh, and don't forget the x3 lump sum on top of the pension

Andy_L

Rotor wrote: »

You sure?
Found this which doesn't tally with your figures http://transparency.number10.gov.uk/resources/geo-chart.pdf
i know it's only one dept. but it suggests your figures don't add up
Can you post your source so I can have look. Thanks

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/facts/statistics/index.aspx

Le73Uq86Uv

How about we cap all pensions for private and public and while we are at it only allow a pay increase of 1% for everyone.

I wonder how the private people would like that, you want to compare like with like but in the 80's public personel were having pay freezes while the yuppies were making it rich.

Come on lets have a one pay rise and a fixed limit pension for every one no matter what you earn.

We all know that the country can not afford a large amount.

Flyboy152

Le73Uq86Uv wrote: »

How about we cap all pensions for private and public and while we are at it only allow a pay increase of 1% for everyone.

I wonder how the private people would like that, you want to comapare like with like but in the 80's public personal were have pay freezes whie the yuppies were making it rich.

Come on lets have a one pay rise and a fixed limit pension for every one no mater what you earn.

We all know that the country can not afford a large amount.

They already are.

Le73Uq86Uv

No they are not, I thought I seen a banker getting millions the other day.

I am thinking more like 20K limit for everyone.

RBS banker to retire on £580,000 pension

Flyboy152

Le73Uq86Uv wrote: »

No they are not, I thought I seen a banker getting millions the other day.

I am thinking more like 20K limit for everyone.

Not into his pension fund he didn't. The current lifetime cap I believe is 1.8 Million pounds with an earnings cap of one hundred and twenty-nine thousand pounds a year.

dreavi

Flyboy152 wrote: »

A very selfish attitude to take, in my opinion.

How can it be selfish? If younger public sector workers withdraw their pension contributions thats their right. In fact if they think they can make the money work harder for them by pulling it out I'd say thats the sensiable course of action.

My pension contributions are for my retirement, I'm not supporting a system that I wont get to enjoy. If that makes me Selfish then so be it, I want to spend my retirement sitting on a beach with Pina Colada, not in a council bedsit in Hull