Nil points !

cit_k

Dognobs wrote: »

People have made this very personal against me, I and others think alot of people abuse the system and confuse having a bad days with depression. If I had nothing to do all day and layed around in bed all day feeling sorry for myself, watching TV, Looking on facebook and posting on forums I think I would end up depressed. I think having something to do and having a purpose is good for you and getting a kick back into looking for work is something that some people need!

I think the problem is your not thinking, your assuming and regurgitating propagnda.

cit_k

Dognobs wrote: »

I was not making this personal, I was saying that if you got NIL POINTS it might be the kick start you need on the road to recovery, If you are able to sit at home forever and not accountable for the support you are getting from the tax payer what incentive do you have? Alot of people form frendships and support through work as well as having extra money in your pocket to buy them extra treets we all want in life. I can't see how I have been offencive to people example is another thread Scared of Jobseekers Allowance where she states:

"I have learned if ur on JSA I will have to do courses I just cannot face this. I am more likely to be happier getting a part time job than going to these courses I just can't do it"

That is my case in point, People don't want to work hoever these courses will help into work taking account problems or needs.

you actually seem to think the courses are designed to help people?
How odd.

cit_k

Dognobs wrote: »

I don't know the details.

The details are usually along the lines of the atos assessment was totally wrong, and the quality of decision making was atrocious, hence the tribunal when they actually bothered to look at the facts and apply the law came to a different decision.

cit_k

Dognobs wrote: »

And I am very happy you passed and getting all the support you need and deserve and hope you get well. People seem to think I want to stop people with a illness getting help I don't! I don't want people to sit at home and fester and then forgot about.

They are forgotten about on both IB and ESA.

Until the next assessment, when the process of having to reprove your case starts all over again.

cit_k

tempested wrote: »

Quite honestly that evidence has no relevance to the claim!

You can have people that have only one leg, one arm and have had cancer, but they will be found fit for work because they cannot pass the tests set down for ESA. It is quite simple, they are looking to see if you could carry out any one of many work function tests, not what medication you are on or even what the diagnosis is!

No, they are not looking, they are ignoring and twisting evidence - thats the problem.

The tasks are not even work related, they are cleverly designed to fit the software so they can fail the required 1 million people.

cit_k

Dognobs wrote: »

How is being honest anything to do with being a nazi? If she got Nil Points she can work?!

If she is on unemployment benefit she will get the same HB and CTB however she will have to do something for for it!

I have awared you a level one flying certificate for you wings on your back. This means you can now fly using your own wings that have grown out of your back.

Of course, you cant, as you dont have any wings, but as you can see anyone can say anything, it does not make it true.

cit_k

Dognobs wrote: »

Can't Jobsearch http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/ but can post very well on forums and talk to someone at the jobcentre and write an appeal letter :T

Who says she cant jobsearch, there is a world of difference between using a website, and actually holding down employment.

cit_k

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Apart from the fact that doctors now issue fit notes rather than sick notes, no doctor certifies to say that the patient is unfit for any work, only their usual job.

How many times have I pointed out the facts?

How many times do you insist on repeating misleading innacurate information despite being told the facts?

The fit note does not anywhere say it is refering to only the persons existing job when the doctor ticks unfit for work.

Muttleythefrog

cit_k wrote: »

How many times have I pointed out the facts?

How many times do you insist on repeating misleading innacurate information despite being told the facts?

The fit note does not anywhere say it is refering to only the persons existing job when the doctor ticks unfit for work.

I'm sure I've pointed out to her before that for some people they've never worked or GP won't know their 'usual occupation' and yet this document is still used... in other words if what she claims is true.. it can't be in all cases. The form doesn't use any reference to 'usual work' and neither does any advice I can find on its use and completion. My GP didn't have a clue what my working history was when he was issuing these forms... and he didn't care..lol.

Muttleythefrog

Dognobs wrote: »

People have made this very personal against me, I and others think alot of people abuse the system and confuse having a bad days with depression. If I had nothing to do all day and layed around in bed all day feeling sorry for myself, watching TV, Looking on facebook and posting on forums I think I would end up depressed. I think having something to do and having a purpose is good for you and getting a kick back into looking for work is something that some people need!

This is the point... some people... the last thing someone for whom it doesn't apply needs is what they'll perceive as yet another problem to deal with... another attack on their integrity when they've just had that. The op gets devastating news that throws her circumstances into turmoil and she will experience anger and frustration that she feels tricked, lied about, not listened to.. this sort of thing. You come along and try to give her a kick that could only realistically enhance these very same type of feelings and thoughts and make her even less likely to end up in the situation you seemed to recommend.

You talked about activities that would indicate people can do some sort of work... but this misses the reality of the sorts of conditions we're talking about here which will often mean people can achieve virtually anything.. but they do so in such an inefficient way at such 'great cost' that for all practical purposes it is something they don't achieve. In fact if you look at one section of the scoring in relation to ESA WCA it is specifically targetted at this very issue of how long it takes to complete tasks. I can mow the lawn... problem is it takes several seasons to do build up the 'energy' to start doing it... by which time I've got grass growing seemingly everywhere.

The reason people have reacted to you as they have is because what you implied from your posting was potentially about the most damaging things you could say to the op... not to mention that for information purposes they may be about the worst possible 'advice'. Scoring zero points on WCA is not uncommon for people who go on to appeal and qualify for the benefit. Even in last 24 hours on the adjacent thread in the list to this one (when I clicked on it) is a case of someone who scored unknown points less than 15 and on appeal got 30 points and indeed it appears may have been placed in the support group for special circumstances (meaning that it appears they've gone from not quaifying for the benefit to scoring twice as many points as needed to qualify for it and indeed perhaps didn't need to score any points anyway because they qualify for the highest rate for special circumstances). Regardless these things are commonplace. We know 40 percent of appeals approximately succeed in overturning a decision that you don't qualify for ESA.. and for those that fail many are still significantly changing the scoring highlighting the mal-application of the WCA particularly at medical. In my own case the medical report was laughable and scoring a joke... the medical was a hideous experience.. one which I audio recorded to later verify the failures of the report and the HCP's integrity... but for my own purposes since I did qualify for Support Group for reasons I disagree with...lol. The op here has not been able to take advantage of features of the process for claiming ESA that are available - supplementary medical evidence that like many she wouldn't be aware was possible to insert into the process (and indeed ATOS deterred).... this is what she needs to know... not 'get on your bike'.

Depression can be extremely debilitating. To give you some idea... I had smoked from teenage years heavily. Smoking was the only constant in my life probably.. certainly something I hadn't considered giving up. I used the fact my tobacco is based as far away in the house from my bed as possible to use the addiciton to get me out of bed. This eventually failed... I was unable to get out of bed for a good 2 days.. I was suffering extreme withdrawal symptoms that could have been fixed in theory within the space of about 1 to 2 minutes of effort. I couldn't do it. I haven't smoked since... by the time I made it downstairs I was starting to see the withdrawal symptoms fading and I started using another trick in relation to my mental illness to finish off the addiction for good. Put this into work context - I could get up, I could make a cigarette... therefore I should be able to do a job working with my hands on a factory production line.... ain't that simple. I'm here in the middle of a night writing a hopefully coherent piece of literary wonder.. prime candidate to run american chat rooms perhaps..lol.. probably not!

Working is a valuable potential tool to assisting some people in overcoming some mental illnesses... for the very reasons I think you've already suggested... but there's no indication that applies here and the views belong in a generic place about benefits, work and overcoming mental illness. For many regarding mental illness they battle to be taken seriously, battle for diagnosis and treatment.. battling the actual illness can become secondary.. and battling with you definitely should be.

My advice.. chalk it up to experience. What you say has some undoubted general merit.. but not here in this thread because it is unlikely to be anything other than damaging to an op who has requested specific help and needs targetted advice.... not targetting. I notice you've done similar on another thread to someone in similar circumstances and it really is not helpful - if you do not comprehend why this may be the case then I can only assume there are genuine medical reasons why not.