Waiting for a proposal - how did you stay sane?!

Chick

Not posted on here a while, I see there has been positive activity- congratulations to those newly engaged!

I for one am feeling terrible, and there's no one to blame but me...I really think all this talk of weddings & biological clock are sending me a bit over the edge! I was saying before xmas that I was convinced my brother was going to get engaged then...they did engaged, but it was just after new year in the end.

I am of course so happy for them, it was very much on the cards. However, I'm feeling totally empty inside after having a serious conversation with the OH tonight...we have spent almost no time together since before xmas due to our jobs and crazy working hours so there has been no 'quality time' to chill out together.

I wanted to broach the conversation about getting married this wk end when we'd have some chilled out time together...however we ended up having that talk tonight, both of us knackered after a full on week. I really was hoping we could talk about timescales etc in terms of getting married/engaged etc. He says he wants to & all that but definitely not this year or next year...I understand that this is sensible cos we've still got debts to pay off and job-wise we both need to focus on the careers.

However, when I explained my worries about leaving it too late for kids etc he was reassuring but essentially he can't see how I can even think about kids at the moment as it's 'not the right time'. The thing that got to me most was that he was convinced all this wedding chat was due to my brother's recent engagement, stop making comparisons etc. I'm frustrated as I had planned to have this conversation this wk end anyway. I'm !!!!ed off he's thinking it's all fuelled by what other people are doing.

I'm sat here on the sofa crying while I type this, OH is asleep, I am wide awake with huge thoughts rushing around my head...does he really want to ever marry me or is it a convenient stall to say "oooh def not for another 2 years". I know the more you talk about it, the less likely it is to happen...but for the first time ever I'm now having serious doubts about my OH's intentions.
I've made it clear to him that for me getting married is important and also trying for kids before I'm 35 (am nearly 34)...OH is 3 and a bit years younger.

It's late, I know, I've had a long rubbish week...I've had a small glass of wine but I am sat here feeling crytal clear & wide awake. I don't want to drive a wedge between us with this being a massive issue (it's starting to get to be one) but for me, alarm bells are starting to ring.

I've got a little voice inside that is questioning everything now...I don't want to end up pushing him away but I can't go on without some sort of resolution- as it stands he wants to wait til at least the end of next year before even considering marriage/kids. I am not happy with this, he knows this...is this a like it or lump it situation?! I think I know what the answer is...

Sorry to have rambled on, taking myself to bed now :-)

74jax

CHick, you will know from this thread you are not alone.

It is not easy to decide to call time on a relationship over this. After 5 years I asked my OH to marry me and he said no. At the time it was ok and I accepted his answer - we didnt know if we could live together, I had never wanted to marry etc.

A year later, and one year of living together later I knew I couldnt go on with out a proposal. I have many posts on here but I remember this feeling that we would split up and he would meet someone else and be married 6 months.... I am not one to worry about tbings beyond my control but this I knew was something I had to give serious thought to.

Would I really call time on a perfectly good relationship because of no ring, i knew I couldn't end it and go back on it. I thought about my OH and how I couldn't be right for him and he deserved to meet someone he wanted to marry.

And then he only went and proposed! We were in Rome and he totally surprised me. He says now he had wanted to for a while and the thought I didn'tt think he felt the same as me was upsetting to him.

I think the fact you have had this talk is really good. You need to decide if you will wait and for how long. Are you happy to be in this position in a year or not. Remember though if you set a deadline in your head he doesn't know.

Some people are very happy to not get married. I wanted to be married before we lived together or at least engaged. I had to compromise on this point but for me it worked out.

I really do hope it works out for you both but think the talk you have had is really good and you both have got things out in the open. Whether or not you can wait the couple of years is your choice but at least you have both heard each others sides.

Hopefully you will be back with good news.:)

findingmyownway

Chick - you're not alone, there is lots of support on here.

As I have said before, I had pretty much the same thoughts and feelings as you in my previous relationship. I can't tell you what to do, but for me my gut feeling was that he was never going to marry me / want kids. I know you can hear your biological clock ticking which makes it even worse for you than it was for me (i was 25).

So I guess alll I wanted to say it that if you make the decision to leave, its not neccesarily all over for you either. I am newly engaged to someone i met less than 2 years ago - i would never have met him in my 'previous life' and would never have known how much better a relationship could be than my old one was. My fiancee and I are completely on the same page when it comes to marriage/kids/life plans - I never realised how amazing that could feel until I escaped the "90%-right-but-not-quite-enough" relationship.

Good luck!

jtr2803

squ1rrel5 wrote: »

I was enrolling on-line for a p/t college course last night and I had to fill in my emergency contact - I put OH's name down and then the next question was 'relationship to you'?
This frustrated me so much - OH was watching me fill in the form and I started saying how difficult it was to fill in the question! He said 'well just put boyfriend down' and that really annoyed me!! I know thats what he is but I wanted him to see how frustrated I am.

I ended up putting 'partner' which I know he doesnt really like but I dont care!
I hate calling him as my boyfriend as I always think I sound like I'm about 15 when I'm describing him and the fact that we are living together means so much more - although I didnt really want to put live-in partner down on the form!!
It would be so much easier if I was his wife!!!!! :rotfl:
At the end of the conversation, I just laughed and said 'there's a much easier way round this, sort it out...' to which he just blatantly ignored!!

Also the New York situation is off... OH didnt get the amount of overtime over Christmas which was going to pay for NYC so we're having to look at alternative holiday locations - all of the suggestions made by OH are not suitable for a quickie wedding so theres no point even brining the conversation up. In fact nowhere is that suitable for a quickie wedding except America as far as I know (if anyone knows any differnt then let me know so I can carry on dropping the hints).
It's getting hard though as I envisaged that if I was planning a holiday in 2012 it would be as part of our wedding plans.

He's asking me to look at holiday destinations this weekend and I have to feign enthusiasm knowing that if we do get married it doesnt look like it will be on a holiday this year. Gutted....

I hate the whole boyfriend/partner thing too! OH tends to refer to me as his 'wife' and that annoys me too (because technically I am not).

I am so sorry to hear NYC isn't looking likely hun, have you really looked into costs to know 100% that it isn't? The reason I say that is that there is a great thread in the overseas travel and planning section about NYC and how to get and stay there cheaply. It's something I really want to do and it's much cheaper to book flights and hotel yourself separately rather than go through a travel agent. Otherwise Cyprus is a popular choice, you only have to be resident for a few days before the ceremony (I think, do double check).

I hope the bruising is subsiding now hun xx

Chick wrote: »

Not posted on here a while, I see there has been positive activity- congratulations to those newly engaged!

I for one am feeling terrible, and there's no one to blame but me...I really think all this talk of weddings & biological clock are sending me a bit over the edge! I was saying before xmas that I was convinced my brother was going to get engaged then...they did engaged, but it was just after new year in the end.

I am of course so happy for them, it was very much on the cards. However, I'm feeling totally empty inside after having a serious conversation with the OH tonight...we have spent almost no time together since before xmas due to our jobs and crazy working hours so there has been no 'quality time' to chill out together.

I wanted to broach the conversation about getting married this wk end when we'd have some chilled out time together...however we ended up having that talk tonight, both of us knackered after a full on week. I really was hoping we could talk about timescales etc in terms of getting married/engaged etc. He says he wants to & all that but definitely not this year or next year...I understand that this is sensible cos we've still got debts to pay off and job-wise we both need to focus on the careers.

However, when I explained my worries about leaving it too late for kids etc he was reassuring but essentially he can't see how I can even think about kids at the moment as it's 'not the right time'. The thing that got to me most was that he was convinced all this wedding chat was due to my brother's recent engagement, stop making comparisons etc. I'm frustrated as I had planned to have this conversation this wk end anyway. I'm !!!!ed off he's thinking it's all fuelled by what other people are doing.

I'm sat here on the sofa crying while I type this, OH is asleep, I am wide awake with huge thoughts rushing around my head...does he really want to ever marry me or is it a convenient stall to say "oooh def not for another 2 years". I know the more you talk about it, the less likely it is to happen...but for the first time ever I'm now having serious doubts about my OH's intentions.
I've made it clear to him that for me getting married is important and also trying for kids before I'm 35 (am nearly 34)...OH is 3 and a bit years younger.

It's late, I know, I've had a long rubbish week...I've had a small glass of wine but I am sat here feeling crytal clear & wide awake. I don't want to drive a wedge between us with this being a massive issue (it's starting to get to be one) but for me, alarm bells are starting to ring.

I've got a little voice inside that is questioning everything now...I don't want to end up pushing him away but I can't go on without some sort of resolution- as it stands he wants to wait til at least the end of next year before even considering marriage/kids. I am not happy with this, he knows this...is this a like it or lump it situation?! I think I know what the answer is...

Sorry to have rambled on, taking myself to bed now :-)

Chick, for once, I am lost for words. I read this quite early this morning and have been trying to think about what I wanted to write in my reply and how to say the things that popped into my head without being really blunt, the written word can be taken in so many different ways.

I am going to start by saying that you are NOT being irrational, I know I would be thinking and feeling exactly the same way. If you were my age (29, 30 very soon) then I would happily suggest that you can wait a few years before trying for children but I can understand that at 33/34 it's going to be a much more urgent issue and to say not this year or next year is a long time to wait for those things, especially as we are only just into 2012. I was going to say that it is you who knows him best, what does your gut tell you but I sometimes have no idea how men think, even my OH, and sometimes we can call it wrong.

I have the same problem as you, what happens if you get to the end of 2013 and then he tries to put it off again? It's such an impossible question to answer. Do you think he is scared? How long have you been together? Sorry, I don't mean to be nosey.

One thing I did realise this morning was that if my OH has said last year, let's get married in 2014 I would have been very happy with that, even though it was three years away. I would have liked this more than if, for example, my OH turned round in 2013 and said let's get married next year...hope that makes sense to someone? It's the uncertainty.

Do you think you need to give yourself a deadline Chick? Maybe the end of this year for a serious talk and if he cannot commit to a timescale then it might be time to move on? I hate saying things like that, I really do but when something is important to you, it's important and I think life is just too damn short to not go after the things that you want from life.

Thinking of you xxx

jtr2803

I had debated posting this and another poster has been very kind and listened to me venting this week and now I feel a bit better I thought I would post it, because it might help others.

Well, as you all read last week, we had this chat about getting hitched next year and initially I was happy/excited - all the things I should be I guess. I've had some bad days this week because at the moment, I would say about 5% of me actually thinks it is going to happen, the other 95% just cannot see it. We aren't announcing it because OH says he wants to 'ask me properly', I hope he is being sincere but to me it's a bit of a delaying tactic. I have also said we need to talk about a budget to see if next march really is feasible and his reply was to suggest the dirtiest. darkest, dingiest pub for a reception (it's the one he meets his mates at). It was either a very unfunny joke or a ridiculous suggestion....I don't know because the conversation never happened. I could ask him again but as it was me who started the whole conversation last weekend I already feel like I have pushed him to get this far, I am not prepared to do it anymore.

It could be that I am irrationally manifesting my fears into the current situation or I could be right, only time will tell. I have decided to bite the bullet and be patient for now, we get back from Kenya on the 2nd of April so he has until then to whatever it is he needs/wants to do. If he hasn't then when we get back we will be having it out. If he starts to falter at that point then I will be walking away. I am not prepared to go from our current point of having agreed to get married back to a boyfriend/girlfriend scenario.

Grass not always greener and all that...........

Chick

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your comments...I was in a pretty bad place early this morning. The sun is now shining outside which helps...

"life is just too damn short to not go after the things that you want from life"...I wholeheartedly agree with this statement, in fact I was saying something similar to a friend who is contemplating some big decisions re job/going travelling.

I just wanted to say that I really, really appreciate all the kind words...your comments have given me lots to think about.

The main thing for me is knowing that I'm not being strung along, with a 'carrot' of marriage & kids to stop me from making any drastic decisions....
Just reading back that sentence to myself scares the hell out of me, I never ever thought I'd say that about my OH and me.

JTR don't worry you're not being nosey- details like that are important when discussing this topic! We've been together 3.5 years, lived together for nearly 18 months...I'm nearly 34 and he's just turned 30.

Once again, thanks so much for helping me stay sane/see some light

jtr2803

Chick wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your comments...I was in a pretty bad place early this morning. The sun is now shining outside which helps...

"life is just too damn short to not go after the things that you want from life"...I wholeheartedly agree with this statement, in fact I was saying something similar to a friend who is contemplating some big decisions re job/going travelling.

I just wanted to say that I really, really appreciate all the kind words...your comments have given me lots to think about.

The main thing for me is knowing that I'm not being strung along, with a 'carrot' of marriage & kids to stop me from making any drastic decisions....
Just reading back that sentence to myself scares the hell out of me, I never ever thought I'd say that about my OH and me.

JTR don't worry you're not being nosey- details like that are important when discussing this topic! We've been together 3.5 years, lived together for nearly 18 months...I'm nearly 34 and he's just turned 30.

Once again, thanks so much for helping me stay sane/see some light

I am really pleased to hear that you feel better this morning

You have been together same amount of time as us then, your comment about a dangling carrot is something I also wrote way, way back in this thread about my OH. I swing between believing they are cunning so and so's who give us little tidbits to keep us interested to thinking they really just don't really give it any thought at all. Not sure which I prefer sometimes. Our situation is probably slightly different as I am not so bothered about children, I am sure if I was then it would be slightly more pressured but I know 100% that marriage is what I want from this relationship, if after 3.5 years of being together (We have lived together pretty much the whole time too) and at the age of 32, he can't work out whether I am right for him or not, he probably never will.

I believe there are some men who purposely lie, they have no intention of ever settling down with their partners but they just don't want to be alone either (actually think this is more common in men than women to me honest) so they make out that they are going to do those things....until someone/something better comes along. The majority of men I think do see themselves doing those things, they just couldn't tell you when or how. It's probably true that it just isn't as important to most men as it is women but that's where discussion and compromise has to come in. I always believed I would be re-married by the time I was 30 with a house and probably more children, but I have none of those and for the most part, I can accept it because it's the result of choices that I made. I consider myself a reasonable person but I won't put up with being led on, lied to, messed around or emotionally manipulated.

AllyS

Chick wrote: »

I'm sat here on the sofa crying while I type this, OH is asleep, I am wide awake with huge thoughts rushing around my head...does he really want to ever marry me or is it a convenient stall to say "oooh def not for another 2 years". I know the more you talk about it, the less likely it is to happen...but for the first time ever I'm now having serious doubts about my OH's intentions.
I've made it clear to him that for me getting married is important and also trying for kids before I'm 35 (am nearly 34)...OH is 3 and a bit years younger.
)

Awww Chick big big hugs coming your way. I am 34, but I have 2 children had them young in my early twenties, completely what I always wanted, I always wanted more children but ex just was not interested, so I gave up on the thought of never having anymore. Along comes OH and he is same age (well a few months younger) and childless, I am sure he probably feels like you and that time is running out I will happily have more kids (being a Mum is the only thing I think I am any good at some days!), but I am very old fashioned and so are my family so I keep toying with the thought of having to against my morals and having a child out of wedlock - I am so sorry I need to laugh at myself for being so old fashioned!! Anyway my point is, is this an option for you guys? Realistically you still have another 6 or 7 years to have a baby, but you do have a lot longer to get married.

You have to decide how desperate you are to have a 'proper' old fashioned family. I know a few people recently that have had one night stands to get pregnant and bought the baby up on their own. Also I don't know about your friends, but at least 5 of my friends (same age) are still childless and seem to be very happy taking their time, not sure how I would feel about that but when I was younger that was my career plan, grow up, get married and have babies, probably why I am stuck in a job that doesn't use any of my brain :rotfl:

jtr2803 wrote: »

Well, as you all read last week, we had this chat about getting hitched next year and initially I was happy/excited - all the things I should be I guess. I've had some bad days this week because at the moment, I would say about 5% of me actually thinks it is going to happen, the other 95% just cannot see it. We aren't announcing it because OH says he wants to 'ask me properly', I hope he is being sincere but to me it's a bit of a delaying tactic. I have also said we need to talk about a budget to see if next march really is feasible and his reply was to suggest the dirtiest. darkest, dingiest pub for a reception (it's the one he meets his mates at). It was either a very unfunny joke or a ridiculous suggestion....I don't know because the conversation never happened. I could ask him again but as it was me who started the whole conversation last weekend I already feel like I have pushed him to get this far, I am not prepared to do it anymore.

It could be that I am irrationally manifesting my fears into the current situation or I could be right, only time will tell. I have decided to bite the bullet and be patient for now, we get back from Kenya on the 2nd of April so he has until then to whatever it is he needs/wants to do. If he hasn't then when we get back we will be having it out. If he starts to falter at that point then I will be walking away. I am not prepared to go from our current point of having agreed to get married back to a boyfriend/girlfriend scenario.

Grass not always greener and all that...........

Awww hun hugs for you too. I think if you are brave enough you should maybe be a little more forceful about the wedding? I know we all want the traditional proposal and wedding and interest from OH (omg I really want the proposal!) but maybe it just isnt going to happen You both agreed on a date so I think you should start working on a budget, guest list etc... Obviously keep running it by him, maybe book viewing's for venue's etc.. Hopefully he will then start showing some interest. I hope this is coming across the way I want it too, I am so supportive of all of you on here - more hugs.

jtr2803 wrote: »

I am really pleased to hear that you feel better this morning

You have been together same amount of time as us then, your comment about a dangling carrot is something I also wrote way, way back in this thread about my OH. I swing between believing they are cunning so and so's who give us little tidbits to keep us interested to thinking they really just don't really give it any thought at all. Not sure which I prefer sometimes. Our situation is probably slightly different as I am not so bothered about children, I am sure if I was then it would be slightly more pressured but I know 100% that marriage is what I want from this relationship, if after 3.5 years of being together (We have lived together pretty much the whole time too) and at the age of 32, he can't work out whether I am right for him or not, he probably never will.

I believe there are some men who purposely lie, they have no intention of ever settling down with their partners but they just don't want to be alone either (actually think this is more common in men than women to me honest) so they make out that they are going to do those things....until someone/something better comes along. The majority of men I think do see themselves doing those things, they just couldn't tell you when or how. It's probably true that it just isn't as important to most men as it is women but that's where discussion and compromise has to come in. I always believed I would be re-married by the time I was 30 with a house and probably more children, but I have none of those and for the most part, I can accept it because it's the result of choices that I made. I consider myself a reasonable person but I won't put up with being led on, lied to, messed around or emotionally manipulated.

My OH is really naughty at this, he has stopped now because I finally lost my temper one day (takes a lot) and went mental. He kept on talking about us getting married and at one stage even got me to say my first name with his surname over and over again and then when he showed me the ring! Then he told me that I was putting too much pressure on :mad: I told him that he was manipulating me and playing with my emotions and that he was censored words. He apologised and said he didn't realise how upsetting I found it!! Men are so insensitive at times, my OH played a classic this week, which I wont repeat on here, but he knows he is in big trouble still.

Anyway it is really hard on here to get across what I want to say on here, written word is so difficult.

I really hope that everyone is ok. We will all be ok in the end, because we are nice, caring and we deserve for our dreams to come true xxx

AllyS

squ1rrel5 wrote: »

I was enrolling on-line for a p/t college course last night and I had to fill in my emergency contact - I put OH's name down and then the next question was 'relationship to you'?
This frustrated me so much - OH was watching me fill in the form and I started saying how difficult it was to fill in the question! He said 'well just put boyfriend down' and that really annoyed me!! I know thats what he is but I wanted him to see how frustrated I am.

I ended up putting 'partner' which I know he doesnt really like but I dont care!
I hate calling him as my boyfriend as I always think I sound like I'm about 15 when I'm describing him and the fact that we are living together means so much more - although I didnt really want to put live-in partner down on the form!!
It would be so much easier if I was his wife!!!!! :rotfl:
At the end of the conversation, I just laughed and said 'there's a much easier way round this, sort it out...' to which he just blatantly ignored!!

Also the New York situation is off... OH didnt get the amount of overtime over Christmas which was going to pay for NYC so we're having to look at alternative holiday locations - all of the suggestions made by OH are not suitable for a quickie wedding so theres no point even brining the conversation up. In fact nowhere is that suitable for a quickie wedding except America as far as I know (if anyone knows any differnt then let me know so I can carry on dropping the hints).
It's getting hard though as I envisaged that if I was planning a holiday in 2012 it would be as part of our wedding plans.

He's asking me to look at holiday destinations this weekend and I have to feign enthusiasm knowing that if we do get married it doesnt look like it will be on a holiday this year. Gutted....

Just wanted to say goodluck with the college course, I am working on an open uni degree at the moment, it is the hardest thing I have ever done!

We really want to go to New York too, really would like to go this year but it is so expensive so I know how you feel. I am going to try and find the thread on here, see if it is possible. I can't get it under £500 each yet. I will let you know if I find anything reasonable xx

MrsDrink

(((jtr))). Okay my thoughts - and please bare with me, cause I've no idea how to put this into words.

(I have written all this before I think in this thread early on but it might be helpful again).

I decided in July/Aug 2005 that I wanted to marry MrD. I was 24, just turning 25. Until that point I never wanted to marry. Why would I want to? I'm a strong independent woman - right? Lol. Well strong yes, but totally independent is a lie. I'm only 'independent' because I have people supporting me and cheering me on, and MrD is at the head of this group. Anyway in 2005 I decided I wanted to become MrsD. I told MrD. I asked MrD... and yep I'm ashamed to say it I begged him too. I was distraught that he didn't love me as much as I did him. I was upset that he hadn't had an epiphany and realised how much life would suck without me. BUT it was him that I loved. Him that I wanted to marry. Noone else could possibly give me what I had with him, or support and cheer me on in the way that he does. If he never wanted to marry me I would have had to get over it. (It does help that at this stage in my life I still didn't want children. I don't know whether I want them or not as I write this - if it happens that is one thing but right now I'm not making any plans).

In Feb 2010 (I was aged 30, he was 31), after 5 years of me 'nagging' him, raising the topic, both of us getting upset - me because he won't and him because he was upsetting me. We'd both cry over it. After a visit to his great aunts and feeling like part of his family (he wasn't there - he was in Finland - I went with his parents), and then a party to celebrate my Uncle's 60th and him being every bit part of my family. We sat down and talked. I told him what I wanted - to be a part of his family properly. For him to be a part of mine. I wanted to be his wife, and share his surname. Everything I spoke about was the marriage. I talked to him about how this was a really sucky situation because to be married isn't something that can be compromised on. You are either married or you're not. You can compromise on how to get married, and you can compromise on the actual marriage. But you can't compromise on being married. I don't know why this conversation was any different to any others, but he ended the discussion with "I suppose we could look into it". (Or something equally as romantic). During this conversation he did say he wanted me to have his surname.

But. I was like you JTR I didn't dare believe he would actually go ahead with it. I wouldn't go as far as to say he wanted to marry me - I think he wanted to end my upset to be honest. I told my work colleagues (because they are separate from my home life so I could off load to them) and my best friend. But things were still unspoken and unsaid between us. I felt like I was walking on egg shells - not daring to say anything just incase he'd changed his mind. I began researching in secret lol. Eventually I told him that it was unfair - and that I would be telling my mum, and therefore he must tell his parents. I explained his mum would hate it if she ever found out that my mum knew for months before she did. I felt like I was forcing his hand, but I had to. There is no way I could have carried on not knowing if he was actually serious - that is just so cruel and unfair. So we (eventually) agreed that I would tell my mum at Easter 2010. Just of our intention to marry. It was a fair while, about another month, before he told his parents. He actually told his mum as she was getting out of the car after we'd dropped her off after swimming lol. It was then official. We were getting married. In August 2010 we set a date and began planning.

I really don't know what to say. I don't even know why I've written this cause I have no idea if it will help or not.

I honestly don't think MrD meant it when he said we could research getting married. I don't think he actually meant it right up until he told his mum. I think it did start off as just wanting to shut me up and stop me from hurting - lol he does love me, he wouldn't want to see me unhappy. But I think it was a catalyst that for me worked out. Throughout the whole wedding planning, I am still treading carefully trying not freak him out and not give him any cause to reconsider.

I guess my point is JTR - give him some time to let things percolate in his mind. Let him sit on it, ponder it for a little while. But then bring the topic up again. Explain to him that you want the marriage, not the proposal. (I didn't get a proposal, it was a discussion that actually played out for 5 years, and from the first hint of 'go on then' to officially being engaged was about 2-3 months.) Tell him (as I did, when discussing telling our parents) that I wanted to be able to scream it from the roof tops. (Interestingly he is the opposite. He says it's something so intimate why should people know. He hasn't officially told any of his work colleagues - some know through one of them being on my FB). It will happen JTR. Just give him a bit of time to adjust to it and come to his own conclusions.


And Chick - really the above applies to you as well. Remember he has said he wants to marry you. He just hasn't gotten any further in his own journey. - I don't know if it would help, but sometimes ladies I wonder whether sharing this thread with your guys would be useful. Or at least highlights of it. Chick you could show him that you have been thinking about this for a lot longer than just because your brother has announced their engagement.

Right I'm going to post this unedited, and unanalysed, else I may just end up deleting it cause I've no idea if this says what I want it to say.
I feel all your pain cause I went through it all myself.
(And I admit - I still get jealous and angry if people get engaged having been with their partners for a shorter time than me - lol which is pretty much everyone given we've been together since July 1999!! All except for people on here who I know have shared my anguish)
((hugs to you all))
x