Waiting for a proposal - how did you stay sane?!

Idiophreak

wanchai wrote: »

It is a big and scary thing, yes.

BUT... well, for example, in the case of people who already have children together, *that* is a bigger commitment than marriage, so why not get married?

Some people will see if that way, some people won't. You can raise children perfectly well if you break up and you *can* have children without ever getting married and be perfectly happy. Personally, I wouldn't want to have children outside of marriage, but I know that's very much a personal preference. (I also wouldn't have children with someone that didn't feel the same about marriage as I do)

A lot of people seem to think marriage is "no big deal"...I mean it's fine, right? If it doesn't work out, you can just get a divorce...simples. Other people just don't see it that way...the point I've been making all along is that everyone's different, everyone goes at their own pace and has their own sensibilities. To say "that is a bigger commitment than marriage" is simply presenting your own values and moral compas as fact, which isn't very fair.

wanchai_2

Idiophreak wrote: »

Some people will see if that way, some people won't. You can raise children perfectly well if you break up and you *can* have children without ever getting married and be perfectly happy. Personally, I wouldn't want to have children outside of marriage, but I know that's very much a personal preference. (I also wouldn't have children with someone that didn't feel the same about marriage as I do)

A lot of people seem to think marriage is "no big deal"...I mean it's fine, right? If it doesn't work out, you can just get a divorce...simples. Other people just don't see it that way...the point I've been making all along is that everyone's different, everyone goes at their own pace and has their own sensibilities. To say "that is a bigger commitment than marriage" is simply presenting your own values and moral compas as fact, which isn't very fair.

It's not a moral statement though. I was making the point that having children is a lifelong commitment to the children, if not to the father/mother with whom you conceived them. Whereas marriage can be dissolved and you never have to see your former spouse again. Obviously, marriage is not to be taken lightly etc.

Sorry if my post wasn't clear...

BTW, taking having children lightly is FAR worse than taking marriage lightly imho.

Idiophreak

wanchai wrote: »

It's not a moral statement though. I was making the point that having children is a lifelong commitment to the children, if not to the father/mother with whom you conceived them.

Which is exactly the point. Making a commitment to your child is probably easier than making a commitment to their other parent.

wanchai_2

Idiophreak wrote: »

Which is exactly the point. Making a commitment to your child is probably easier than making a commitment to their other parent.

But why would you have children with someone you don't want to be with for the rest of your life?

jtr2803

I've been away from the thread for a while but have been reading the replies and it's interesting to see the different takes on the subject and Idiophreak, thank you for being so honest, it's nice to see things from a mans POV even though, admittedly, I do struggle to understand a lot of it, I guess it shows that men and women are wired differently.

LEJC, I certainly never thought ill of you for your posts and I would never hold it against someone because they got a quick proposal! I just struggle with my inner green eyed monster sometimes! Just one thing I did want to add/point out, is that OH has not refused to marry me, I guess the reverse is almost true, during intense discussions on the subject, he maintains that he still does want to, but unfortunately things have never progressed past that point. He has never offered any particular reason for it, I just have to guess that he isn't 'ready'.

I have no doubt that age plays a large part, I was engaged to my ex boyfriend after a year together but there was no rush for a wedding, it was just something that would happen in the future. Having spent the last five years building myself a good career and sorting out some financial difficulties I feel like I am ready for the next stage of my life with my boyfriend and would like to know that he sees that too. If I could go back in time I don't think I would have moved in with him so quickly, I think as LEJC said, it's become more socially acceptable to live together/have children etc without getting married and I guess that essentially, I am a 'wife' in most respects but without the official title. A few couples I have known to get engaged recently have been together 7/8 years but their relationships started when either both, or one of them, were either teenagers or in their very early twenties, so I can understand why, in those circumstances, a proposal/marriage may take longer to get too. I don't mean in any way to belittle any one who is that age and feels the same way as me but I do appreciate that during my early to mid twenties I was still learning a lot about myself and 'growing up' for want of a better word so can better understand why it might take longer for the couple to get to that stage.

I don't want to issue an ultimatum but if I had to, I would. I am fairly sure he would agree to it (and maybe even be a little grateful that I am saving him a job!) but I don't want to do that for the same reason I don't want to propose.......I've made it clear I want to get married so if/when he does ask then it's clear he wants it too. This time next year I will have no financial commitments and will hopefully have finished my professional studies, by that time it would be nice to have plans to take the next step in our relationship together. I keep trying to make myself feel better by reminding myself that OH has never been engaged before, so it is not just me that is having this problem. Some time ago he received a statement from his pension administrators showing what he would get when he retires, his comment to me was 'this is what you will get if I die', he didn't seem to understand that unless we are married, that is not the case.

I don't know what will happen, I am trying to focus on being patient over the next year

jtr2803

Idiophreak wrote: »

...and yes, we'd been together for 7 or 8 years, but for 4 of those I lived in a different country, for the first couple we only saw each other a couple of times per week....I know it sounds daft, but 7 or 8 years isn't necessarily a very long time...

Just reading back through and I wanted to pick up on this a little..

OH and I have lived together since day one (less than 10 nights apart since we got together) so if you got engaged after 7/8 years but you weren't in the country for four of those then effectively you were together for 3/4 years before your proposed. I know that you were still 'together' but you openly admit that for the first few years you saw each other a few times a week so naturally the relationship progressed at a more relaxed level. Sorry, I don't want it to sound like I am picking holes or being mean, I really am not but I am just trying to point out where the time you have been together is not necessarily wholly relevant.

You might say that 3.5 years is not a long time in the grand scheme of life and I would tend to agree with you BUT if you have lived with someone for that length of time it is surely a long enough period to get a good indication of your compatibility, is it not?

Idiophreak

jtr2803 wrote: »

Just reading back through and I wanted to pick up on this a little..

OH and I have lived together since day one (less than 10 nights apart since we got together) so if you got engaged after 7/8 years but you weren't in the country for four of those then effectively you were together for 3/4 years before your proposed. I know that you were still 'together' but you openly admit that for the first few years you saw each other a few times a week so naturally the relationship progressed at a more relaxed level. Sorry, I don't want it to sound like I am picking holes or being mean, I really am not but I am just trying to point out where the time you have been together is not necessarily wholly relevant.

You might say that 3.5 years is not a long time in the grand scheme of life and I would tend to agree with you BUT if you have lived with someone for that length of time it is surely a long enough period to get a good indication of your compatibility, is it not?

I can see what you're getting at, but I don't think it quite works that way. The number of years you've been together is, I think, absolutely as important as the hours of "face time" you've put in. Even when I was living in another country (only Wales, actually...but still) and I was only seeing the other half every couple of weeks, we were still talking daily and learning about each other and...more importantly, we were both growing and changing as people.

My wife has changed a little in the 11 years we've known each other, but I've changed a massive amount in that time. Fortunately, we've found that as the years go on and we grow, we grow together. We could just as easily have grown apart, so...even if we'd lived together from day 1, I still don't think 3 years would, necessarily, have been enough time to sensibly commit to marriage - and I really don't think that "a good indication of your compatibility" is really all that's needed to make that commitment, to be honest.

jtr2803

I do understand what you are saying but do you think part of the changing that you did was due to your ages during that period of time? I guess what I am getting at is that, at our ages, we have done most of our growing up and working out what we want and who we are (well I certainly have).

I didn't mean that being 'compatible' was the only thing required to make that commitment but meant it in a sense that we have done day to day living together, we have been in our own flat for over 2.5 years now so all the barriers are down and we have found out that we are happy living together through the rigmarolls of daily life. To me, that was a very big thing. It's easy to have a great relationship without the stress of running a household and all the financial strain that goes with it. Once you have lived together for a while all the bad habits come out and I think that's when you get to see the real person and know whether you can see a long term future.

This is the longest serious relationship I have had technically speaking and the longest I have ever co-habited with a partner (including my ex husband) so have no doubts that we could happily continue to do so.

Idiophreak

jtr2803 wrote: »

I do understand what you are saying but do you think part of the changing that you did was due to your ages during that period of time? I guess what I am getting at is that, at our ages, we have done most of our growing up and working out what we want and who we are (well I certainly have).

I think that's partly true, for sure. We were young when we got together and had a lot of growing up still to do...But, 10 years later, I don't think I'm anywhere near done - I like to think I'll never stop changing, learning and growing. I think there are very few people who would say they're the same person they were 10 years ago, irrespective of their age.

Lbc_2

I've read this thread over the last few days and I had to say thank you to you all. The OP could have been writing my life story, except the daughter from my previous marriage, and knowing that there are other people out there feeling like this has been a lifeline. I hope you all get the answers you are looking for soon.:)
I hope I do too! :rotfl: