Continuous Car Insurance - Started

michael.d_3

Hi, I have just found out about this new rule recently & cannot find anything on my situation so heres hoping someone will know the answer to this one!

I stay in the middle of nowhere & have an old 4x4 that is MOT'd & taxed, kept in a barn & I only use it when the snow is really bad or to tow a trailer with rubbish to the skip. Now I dont insure it for the full year as my NCB is on my daily vehicle & it would cost me about £400+ Third party only because i have No NCB.... I have been insuring it on temporary insurance as and when needed, so far roughly about 3-4 times over last 8 months at a cost of about £20 a time, so £60-£80 so far.

This is a lot less than a £400 annual policy. Am I right in thinking that under the new rules I would be forced to either buy an annual policy or declaire the jeep SORN and cash the road tax in??

If I do the SORN option, when I need to use the vehicle do I then have to get temporary insurance, then road tax for a few days use then declaire it SORN again and cash the tax back in? seems like a lot of work considering the amount I use it!

And what if after declairing the SORN I need to use the vehicle in a few weeks for a single day for example... lets just say im moving a bed with my trailer...hapened recenly. The road tax refund wont be through... DVLA are not eactly super quick with this, do I then have to pay a further 6 or 12 months for one day then immediatly complete another SORN and wait for two refunds?

Any help or advice on this would be good because at the moment the only option I can see is to declaire the 4x4 as SORN and then run it using the temporary insurance option & just hope that no one notices that its not taxed.

I have never driven a vehicle on the road without MOT, insurance & tax. I can see what they are trying to do with this rules but I dont think they have fully thought it through... yes they will take a lot of uninsured drivers off the road but what about the people who have been driving legally all these years being forced into driving illegally?

The only solution I can see is if the DVLA start doing temporary road tax similar to the temporary insurance you can get. You pay for the number of days you need online?

If anyone has any advice or information it would be very helpfull.

Thanks

Wig

michael.d wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that under the new rules I would be forced to either buy an annual policy or declaire the jeep SORN and cash the road tax in??

Yes

If I do the SORN option, when I need to use the vehicle do I then have to get temporary insurance, then road tax for a few days use then declaire it SORN again and cash the tax back in? seems like a lot of work considering the amount I use it!

Yes

And what if after declairing the SORN I need to use the vehicle in a few weeks for a single day for example... lets just say im moving a bed with my trailer...hapened recenly. The road tax refund wont be through... DVLA are not eactly super quick with this, do I then have to pay a further 6 or 12 months for one day then immediatly complete another SORN and wait for two refunds?

Yes

Any help or advice on this would be good because at the moment the only option I can see is to declaire the 4x4 as SORN and then run it using the temporary insurance option & just hope that no one notices that its not taxed.

Except using SORN vehicles carries a heavy fine.

You need to SORN now otherwise you will get a letter.

However no-one has yet seen one of these letters. I have a feeling they may be of the sort......

You have a vehicle taxed but not insured, you have 7 days to SORN or insure it otherwise £100 fine

Now that won't be so bad because it will give you time to sort it out.

The letter could say...

You have a vehicle taxed but not insured, you have to pay a £100 fine immediately

Which is not what you want.

Suggest you SORN now, and wait to hear from other people what these letters are saying.

I believe it all starts Monday 20th June so you might want to do it now or Sunday at the latest, you can SORN online.

mikey72

http://stayinsured.askmid.com/documents/ial.pdf

paddedjohn

pitkin2020 wrote: »

sally i understand what your saying but we are talking about insurers here, they are not exactly known for being generous, bit like bankers. They will hike the price up on the second car because they can.

Thanks for the info on the mot but again its catch 22 as isn't your insurance invalidated if you don't have a current tax disk or mot?? So whilst you may have cover they won't pay out in the event of an accident.

your insurance is not invalidated if the vehicle is untaxed or without mot.

paddedjohn

atrixblue.-mfr-. wrote: »

so effectivly taking away the right to shop around for deals.

No tax+ no insurance = get a garage that costs £50+ mot to collect the car.

No tax + no insurance= you have to make do with that garage round the courner you have heared horro stories about and most locals avoid to avoid being stopped etc.

No tax but insured means you can arrange an over the phone mot or if you have a second car call in on the cheapest and arrange one and then drive there? But heaven forbid you have detour on the way and get stopped. Just imagine it now, coppa "car not mot'd sir", you;"yes i know im travelling to getmycarmot'dtoday garage on governemnt road" coppa:" but thats in the opposite direction sir is there any reason why you traveling this way?" you:"yes the temporary lights at roadworks avenue are not working i turned around and came this way because of traffic" coppa: "really sir i have just come through there and the lights are working just traffic build up as normal so where you really headed sir?" you: "i told you mot give them a call if you like" coppa calls them enganged or no answer, coppa: "i have reasonable doubt you are taking this car for mot sir and therefor i'm issuing a ticket of a fixed penalty of £60, if you prove that you car was mot'd today then you may contest it, however if you fail to do so you may end up at court and ordered to pay more" by the time all this has taken place you miss your apointment and have to rebook for next week and try and get a written explanation from the garage to support your claim to taking it there because if you dont and have a new appointment time the apeal is going to fall on its feet.

Whats the problem? It has always been the case that you need valid insurance to take your car for an mot. You could always trailer it if you dont want to insure it

michael.d_3

Thanks wig for clearing that up. I thought that would probbably be the case.

"I believe it all starts Monday 20th June so you might want to do it now or Sunday at the latest, you can SORN online."

Ill get it done online today once im finished work... just to be safe for now.

Does anyone know if you can submit a SORN even if your vehicle currently has tax? its taxed until December.

I know I need to submit a paper form for a road tax refund but can I submit an online SORN today when the tax is currently valid until December??

Im sure criminals will very quickly figure a way around this, leaving just us, the genuie motorists with the extra hassle & fines where someone is forced into driving without tax.

Theres so much talk these days of "human rights" wheather it be prisoners (criminals) getting to vote or something else. Surely someone sould be standing up for genuine motorists rights.

Is it not a persons right to own a vehicle, have it road worthy (valid MOT), have paid for it to use the public road (valid TAX) and then simply pay for the days they want to use it?

Personally I dont think anyone should be forced by law to pay money for something they dont use. Why pay for 365 days of insurance when the vehicle is only used for maybe 10-20 days?

Has anyone figured out a way around this yet??

Im sure theres a lot of people in very similar situations to me, I know of a few people with motor homes. They keep them on private land, leave it taxed all year round & only insure it on the weekends they use it, usually last miniute when the weather is nice.

Sally_A

@ michael.d - yes you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

There is going to be an allowance for fleets that may keep specialist vehicles taxed all year, but only use them on occasion.

You easiest option may be to find an insurer that does a "laid up" policy, and only bring the 4x4 onto full cover when needed. I'm not convinced that a laid up vehicle would appear on the MID, but I do know there is a line on the database info that states the cover that is in force for the vehicle.

Unfortunately you don't get much notice when it's going to snow, so the chance of phoning up and effecting cover late at night is a bit slim, unless we have more 24 hr helplines, but that would mean call centres abroad again I guess.

Sally_A

Does anyone smell a bit of a rat here.

Cut backs to Public Sector jobs; DVLA dream up a right pig's ear of an idea that will cause phone calls and mayhem and need lots of staff to handle. :cool:

Solutions?

Do away with road tax and:-

Increase Insurance Premium Tax from 6% to 20% (On motor insurance), so the government get the revenue that way.
Hit those driving with no insurance harder.

Increase tax on fuel, so the more miles you drive the more tax you pay. downside - fuel theft will increase - upside - foreign vehicles will be contributing to the coffers.

Pay a bill at the time of MOT depending on how many miles you've done - won't work as you may sell a car half way through the MOT year, and rogues will fiddle the odometer.

Wig

mikey72 wrote: »

http://stayinsured.askmid.com/documents/ial.pdf

The letter doesn't say how long you have to do it. And we still don't know at what point they will issue a penalty.

But it does say by taking action you can avoid a penalty - which is good.

michael.d_3

Sally A - you are right, this has not been thought through at all.

This has been labelled as a way to get more uninsured cars off the road but the kind of people who drive uninsured wont care if there cars MOT'd or taxed & will just drive anyway regardless as to wheather it is SORN or not.

It will be labelled a success with a lot of fines issued but how many of these figures will be genuine people who simply made a mistake, left there can uninsured but taxed in there garage while away on holiday or working away from home for a few months.

As for the "smart" criminals, they will just register using a fake name or declair the car SORN and put number plates from a genuine, similar make car on it. Avoid all ANPR cameras and with the cost cutting going on you will have to search far and wide for a good old fashioned police officer in a car to spot these.