LPG / LPG prices (merged)

Mick_r_2

Excelllent thread !

Moved into a house several months ago and I just cannot believe the situation with regards to supply of LPG domestically.

For the suppliers it must be like an ideal situation ! individuals locked into a supply contract with no way of knowing what a current fair price is, they can effectively charge whatever they think they can get away with.

Does anybody know a good site check current prices ?

Regards all

LittleVermin

Mick_r wrote: »

Excelllent thread !

Moved into a house several months ago and I just cannot believe the situation with regards to supply of LPG domestically.

For the suppliers it must be like an ideal situation ! individuals locked into a supply contract with no way of knowing what a current fair price is, they can effectively charge whatever they think they can get away with.

Does anybody know a good site check current prices ?

Regards all

Hi Mick_r,

I've just searched the web for the world bulk price - with not much success (but it's over $600/tonne - and falling as of last month: Northern Hemisphere summer).

Price comparison sites? Only what we post on the various LPG forums on MSE it seems!

In June I switched from BP - charging me 53.95ppl without a contract but offering 42.45ppl, only guaranteed until August, for a 2 year contract. Quite a drop!

I'm now with Extra Fuel - I paid 36.03ppl in June, and it's now 36.94ppl.

The current price is posted on their website http://www.extrafuel.co.uk and is valid for that month.

Extra Fuel can make a profit at their price obviously. They are based in Manchester but subcontract deliveries outside their tanker range: Flogas delivered the gas to me, in Cornwall (so they were making a profit on whatever Extra Fuel paid them!).

Easy to switch.

You can find out who'll supply your area by putting your postcode in the box at http://www.uklpg.org/supplier-search/

Good luck!
John aka Little Vermin (house name is Little Kirland - Cornish - everyone gets it wrong!)

LittleVermin

Consumer direct on lpg (one page summary):

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/EnergySupplyandPost/energysupply/563247/LPG

FAQs
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/monopolies/lpg-faqs.pdf

Useful stuff to quote if your supplier tries a run-around! (e.g. any old contracts of over 2 years are unenforceable - but it's up to the consumer to give notice).

abigbill

I pay the effective price of 22ppl for my LPG. To see how I get to this figure go to http://www.coedcymru.org.uk/calculator.htm. I use antracite/smokeless at 225 per tonne. For more on how thsi is done, see my older posts.

I use my Dowling and now use LPG only for cooking, summertiem water and my tumble dryer (A whirlpool Yank jobby). I was a Flogas f*ck-monkey once. No more. Saved me £2500 and rising a year. LPG is for people that like being sh*fted! Now I laugh at Flogas! I regualrly tell them to 'roll' their tank.

From my prev post:

===============

The Real LPG Rules:

1) Admit what the Flogas Calor rules really are. They are... freeze or pay. So, once you’re out of term. don’t ever never, never, never sign a contact with Calor or Flogas. Do this, and the front-bottoms whatever the promise, will shaft you next October.
2) Contact?: If you MUST sign. Make sure the tank lift fee is either crossed out or is a fiver. 50p is better.
3) Then keep swapping between the two.
4) Open your chimney and put a Dowling (speak to Steve the Jock) , Aarow or Trianco coal fired boiler in, with a Dunsley Neutraliser linkup (so you’re not caught out until the stove slumbers and gets to heat in the morning and then the stat cuts the LPG) and see bills go down to half mains gas prices. Let alone LPG costs or Oil prices. And have a real fire in you living room, (if you didn not select a Trianco) that never goes out from Oct to April. Buy your 6 tonne of smokeless coal in June. Never Dec. Forget wood. Then October comes and the 54p a litre bill flops on your mat. You just laugh. LOUDLY. You quietly tell ’em to lift the tank. Sweet joy. They don’t lift, but put the ppl down. You do you porridge every morning with LPG and your water only in summer. Consumption? Half a tank a year. Or less. My consumption, bill last year would be 7700 litres @54p = £4148. But, never again. Coal is easy if you have the proper set-up. just throw a bag in. No loose coal to deal with. No bunker. My coal bill? £1500 a year.
5) Thus I declare my love for Messrs. Flogas & Calor. The beast is tamed.

HateLPG

Currently with Calor (supply to N Yorks), and just up for contract renewal.

Calor best offer: 38.65ppl; Price cap exit clause: I can leave the contract if they increase the price by more than 3.5ppl in any THREE month period.

Shell - initial offer (no haggling): 36ppl; Price cap exit clause: I can leave the contract if they increase the price by more than 3ppl in any SIX month period.

No brainer, really!

To be fair, I didn't bother contacting Flogas (I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole at the moment) or BP (I can't see them remaining competitive in the medium term, given what's happened out in America and anyway, they declined to quote for my area last time I approached them).

Also, as I think I said in an earlier post, I was recently chatting to our tame Gas Engineer, who said that from what he'd heard, Shell's service and engineers are pretty good.

It seems that Shell are pricing agressivly and REALISTICALLY to try to grab a substantial share of the market. It will be interesting to see what is on offer in 2 years time, but right here and now, they are a pretty good bet for me.

From everything I have read, it seems that 36ppl is a pretty FAIR price in the current climate, is comparable with Extra Fuels, and effectively the max price is a known quantity over the contract period, rather than "risking" the Extra Fuels spot-price (worst-case increase of 3ppl each 6 months over the next 2 years or I can start looking elsewhere without penalty) and I can't see the price of LPG or any other oil-related fuel going anywhere other than up in the medium to long term.

Interestingly, I also had a guy from Calor customer retention team on the phone. From what he said, they are having a pretty hard time all round getting people to buy into Calor's outrageous pricing and contract terms. Can't think why!

And in case this sounds like an advert for Shell, it's not - I have no affiliation with them, and am taking a leap into the unknown - it just seems more of a known unknown than Calor's known known - I know from bitter experience that Calor will try to push the price up by the maximum contractually permitted amount (or more) EVERY three months, regardless (sorry for the Rumsfeld-ism - couldn't resist)

Ken_from_Hampshire

HateLPG wrote: »

Just found this, as a written response to a commons question, regarding the relative prices (p/kWh) for various domestinc heatiing fuels. It's five years out of date, sadly, but given the way that LPG has shot up since then it doesn't make for pretty reading!

a. Coal 15.6
b. Heating oil 22.2
c. Gas 1.7
d. Electricity 7.4
e. LPG 33.3

I am trying to find the current price comparison per kWh as above. I can probably get my last delivery's cost per litre, but I need to know the cost per kWh. Does anybody know the figures ?

I have trawled the websites, but all they offer is price comparison sites for the usual mains gas, electricty etc, just comparing different suppliers.

I would lile to compare delivered LPG vs mains gas, oil, electricity and coal.

Can anybody help, please ?

Many thanks,

Ken

abigbill

LPG price per KW/h comparison to gas and oil and electric and wood

Not sure why you ask when the link was above you, but here we are:

http://www.coedcymru.org.uk/calculator.htm

I'm on 225 a tonne. I pay just under 2.75p KW/h using coal. LPG price @ 41ppl is 5.1KW/h

The numbers above from HateLPG are not KW/h prices! Coal 15.6?? Utter rot! I think the LPG price is ppl - Oil is ppl - and Electric 7.4 must be peak rate. House Coal was about £156 a tonne then. Who knows, anyway not like-for-like. Not KW/h.

You'll still need soem maths to figure in boiler efficiences,( for the last decimal point), but table can be read without any Math for a good near-enough guide. I refused to remain an 'LPG bend-over boy' I'm on coal! I was being royally shafted. No more!! Get yourself a proper coal-burner. A Dowling if you've lots of rads. My utter fury for being over-charged some £7-8000 over 3 odd years by Flogas and their approach, has me telling all that will listen. With LPG you are locked. Oil not much better, but at least with Oil its open to competition. LPG? Never again. I'd love to use wood, greenest, but its not viable, most costly and more bulky. Does look pretty though. Xmas only.

Like for like comparison in KW/h is at http://www.coedcymru.org.uk/calculator.htm

Ken_from_Hampshire

I have checked and we are paying 48.9 p/litre, which sounds high to me, but thereagain they are giving me £50 and another £50 next year, - not sure how that works out, suppose I should divide that by the number of litres used for 1 year.

And I have used the calorific value of the gas, (which seems to vary between 6.6 and 7.4 kW/l by the way), to compare the costs between LPG, oil, mains gas and coal, including taking into account efficiences etc.

Anyway, the reason behind all this was because we have had an EPC, (or Energy Certificate), carried out for our house.

We were warned that using LPG had some adverse penaltie, for example environmentally, as it comes by road etc.

But we did not expect our rating to be so low that we are the lowest rated detached house for sale in East Hampshire, even though we have a modern house, full DG, loft insulation, rad thermostats, cylinderstat and other factors.

In fact there is a Victorian vicarage with box sash windows that has a higher rating than ours, and an "all-electric" house nearby which has almost double our rating. I have queried this with the company that did our EPC and am now waiting for their reply.

So, by having all this comparison ammunition I am prepared should they come back and say "well LPG is more expensive", or some such vague fob-off.

Yes, it is more expensive, but that is only a small part of the calculation. I have asked them for their calculations, and will be less than pleased if they try and deny me their base figures.

Has anybody else had this problem, or know of a similar situation ?

Are LPG users being unfairly victimised in that sense ?

Many thanks,

Ken

abigbill

EPC and LPG are not a good mix. EPC is not good fo anyhting but mains gas as far as I can see. My EPC was very poor, as a result of it being a period c1540 house and fuel being LPG.

LittleVermin

busybird wrote: »

That's interesting to know. Having held Calor to the contract I have with them for the past five years, this is renewal in September so it would make sense for me to shop around obviously.

Hi busybird,
I'm told that if someone wants to leave Calor they make it very difficult - so IF you do decide to switch it would be very useful if you posted your experiences, please. I switched from BP, who were fleecing me (at 53.95 without a contract, 42.45 guaranteed for 3 months with a 2 yr contract), but at least they allowed a quick smooth switch, I believe, to Extra Fuel.

Calor has around 15k customers down here in Devon and Cornwall - that's around 60% of the market. Basically anyone who gets a good introductory price - or a good renewal price - is being subsidised by thousands who contribute generously to Calor's bottom line.

best wishes,
John aka LittleVermin