Ahhh some buyers just make me cry!

soolin

EdgEy wrote: »

We are NOT asking to be able to defraud buyers. We are asking for eBay to consider that "item not recieved" means "buyer claims item not recieved". There is a subtle difference.

Yes there is a difference in the terminology. The first phrase means that for some reason the buyer has not recived their item, the second suggests buyer is lying.

To give full force to the latter would mean a change in the law, is that what you are suggesting? If not then why not leave the term neutral to imply a simple lack of receipt rather than make it accusatory.

Derivative

What law would you be referring to?
As far as I am aware the statutory delivery time is set at 30 days.
Cooling off period doesn't apply to private sellers.

The accusatory tone is your interpretation, not mine. A neutral viewpoint would be to accept the item was not recieved, but to wait for courier investigation before releasing funds.

Tell me, again, what is my recourse if a Royal Mail investigation finds the item was delivered? Small claims court? In which case, why should the buyer have an instant solution to their problem while I struggle in the courts?

mikey72

EdgEy wrote: »

What law would you be referring to?
As far as I am aware the statutory delivery time is set at 30 days.
Cooling off period doesn't apply to private sellers.

The accusatory tone is your interpretation, not mine. A neutral viewpoint would be to accept the item was not recieved, but to wait for courier investigation before releasing funds.

Tell me, again, what is my recourse if a Royal Mail investigation finds the item was delivered? Small claims court? In which case, why should the buyer have an instant solution to their problem while I struggle in the courts?

We keep telling you.
The simple answer is because under ebay rules, there are both buyers and sellers on ebay.
Under your rules you will have sellers.
If you don't deliver, you may fool me once. You won't fool me twice, I'll go elsewhere.

Take this example

techspec wrote: »

Exactly - more and more recorded items are failing to show as delivered. If the buyer knows the tracking number and see this online - they can say it never arrived. Signed for/recorded is of no extra value than proof of postage as far as Royal mail go - but it makes life easier with PAYPAL.

I was refused another refund from Royal mail for a recorded item , as the buyer failed to respond (probably cos they had the item). Many months later, it was still winding me up - so i demanded a copy of the signature that i paid extra for - or i would start court action. A cheque for £30 arrived the week after.

Adamant the buyer must have had the item.
The royal mail paid out when they couldn't provide any signature.
So not delivered at all in the end.
Another seller jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Derivative

If I bought an item and it wasn't delivered I am prepared to wait to find out what has gone on with the courier. Mainly because I actually want the item, I'd be happy to see if they find it.

Are you telling me if buyers had to wait the statutory 30 days if items went missing they'd go elsewhere?

soolin

EdgEy wrote: »

Are you telling me if buyers had to wait the statutory 30 days if items went missing they'd go elsewhere?

Yes, I suspect they would.Sales that are not face to face need a buyer to feel confident, take away the speed or safety of that sale and they may well not bother.

mikey72

EdgEy wrote: »

If I bought an item and it wasn't delivered I am prepared to wait to find out what has gone on with the courier. Mainly because I actually want the item, I'd be happy to see if they find it.

Are you telling me if buyers had to wait the statutory 30 days if items went missing they'd go elsewhere?

You may think ordering for christmas at the start of November is ok.
Most buyers would be off like a shot.

Derivative

mikey72 wrote: »

You may think ordering for christmas at the start of November is ok.
Most buyers would be off like a shot.

Why must you twist my comments so?
It is plainly obvious 30 days refers to the compensation period with a courier.

And many HK sellers seem to do well with 24 days delivery, by the way.

Perhaps those buyers wanting 1 day delivery should pay for it, instead of going for the cheapest option and relying on eBay's generous protection policies to refund them if things don't go as planned.

mikey72

EdgEy wrote: »

If I bought an item and it wasn't delivered I am prepared to wait to find out what has gone on with the courier. Mainly because I actually want the item, I'd be happy to see if they find it.

Are you telling me if buyers had to wait the statutory 30 days if items went missing they'd go elsewhere?

I want an item for christmas.

25th December.

So 30 days before, by my reckoning is near enough the 25th November.
Give me a week or two before christmas to actually get it, check it, wrap it, so I really want it by the first or second week of december. Then if it doesn't come, I can still get out to the shops.

So by your new rule, to protect all the sellers.

Novenber the first, I order, and you post/courier it by say the end of the week, the 7th of November.
I give it a week to arrive. It doesn't.
So on the 14th I complain.
You insist on your 30 days to investigate.
By the 7th of December, or maybe the 14th by your rule, we finally agree it missing, and a few days later, say the
9th or 16th of December, I have my money back.

You may be the only seller left on ebay the next christmas.
The rest will have followed the buyers.

Derivative

mikey72 wrote: »

snore

The 30 days is from date of despatch. Or in eBay terms, from date of payment. Most sellers don't send an item a whole week after payment.

You are making up strawman scenarios to support your point.

And you continue to fail to see that waiting for a courier's decision is simply fair to both buyers and sellers. I see well that you, as eBay, believe buyers should be held on a pedestal above all else. As our viewpoints are incompatible this argument is pointless.

mikey72

EdgEy wrote: »

The 30 days is from date of despatch. Or in eBay terms, from date of payment. Most sellers don't send an item a whole week after payment.

You are making up strawman scenarios to support your point.

And you continue to fail to see that waiting for a courier's decision is simply fair to both buyers and sellers. I see well that you, as eBay, believe buyers should be held on a pedestal above all else. As our viewpoints are incompatible this argument is pointless.

I agree it's pointless certainly.

You'll keep selling, keep paying ebay, and keep doing what they tell you, and keep making a profit. Or you'll stop selling there, and maybe you'll carboot, or even set up a suitcase on a street corner

So long as I like ebay, I'll keep buying there.
If they change and I don't like them, I'll buy the same thing elsewhere.

If I want to have no comeback, and buy what I know is going to be rubbish, from someone I will never see again, no matter how much I look, maybe I'll come to you if you're on a streetcorner with a suitcase.