Single mother, 2 children, what can they get?

melbi_uk

My daughter is a single parent. Rents a house privately and works part time. She gets her childcare costs paid for (well most of it) I think she has to find £20 a week out of her money to pay the rest. She gets some of her rent paid. She also gets tax credits.

She struggles each month.

Her friend same position but doesn't work. She has more money at the end of each month than my daughter.

Would my daughter quit work? No! She says she would go crazy stuck in the house every single day.

Jowo_2

xxtokerxx wrote: »

..So in a nut shell the combination of the benefits and the CSA means that I would have to earn Circa 40k per annum, the my partner to earn 15-20k per annum just to have a similar amount of disposable income as a single mother claiming - that's the funny thing about it and was the original reason for me interest, to compare the styles of living.

I hope you don't work in a role that requires numeracy.

A single parent with one child will receive £140 per week from the public purse and one with two children will receive approx £200 per week as 'disposable' income. Many lone parents don't receive any child support from their ex.

Assuming they are in an average price property and get council tax discount, their overall benefits including housing benefit and some child maintenance may be around £300 to £400 per week.

That's equivalent to a taxable salary of 21k to 26k if all their income is factored in, not just the 'disposable' income of £7.2k for the parent with one child (income support, child benefit, child tax credits) and 10.4k for the lone parent with 2 children).

The single parent gets moved onto JSA when their youngest child reaches 7 (this will be reduced to 5) and often end up in low income employment because child care responsibilities make it harder to find well paid full time employment.

In comparison, a couple earning 55k to 60k will receive approx £800 to £880 net each week after tax.

Why am I expected to feel sorry for a couple whose gross income is two or three times greater than a single parent on benefits, and whose net disposable income may be 4 or 5 times higher?

SingleSue

xxtokerxx wrote: »

The ironic bit being that if you live off the government as a single parent you have less stress and more disposable income than those that work full time, meaning those that actually make effort in supporting their family (which in turn support the benefits since they are paying taxes) are forced to see their own children less and have less financial support.

So in a nut shell the combination of the benefits and the CSA means that I would have to earn Circa 40k per annum, the my partner to earn 15-20k per annum just to have a similar amount of disposable income as a single mother claiming - that's the funny thing about it and was the original reason for me interest, to compare the styles of living.

So once again stop jumping to conclusions and stop trying to dig into my personal circumstance, you don't know and probably if you did know and was willing to listen probably wish you didn't know.

So thanks again for your valuable input

Oh now that really made me laugh...less stress? I'll say it in capitals as it is so laughable...LESS STRESS?

Sign me up please for the less stress, oh sorry, I am supposed to have less stress already as a single (through divorce I hasten to add) parent on benefits.

Prior to the divorce and the having to give up my job to care for 3 disabled children , ex hubby earned in the region of 45k a year, I earned (part time because of the boys needs), approx 10-15k a year. I can tell you right now, we were way way way better off financially than I am now.

WE could afford to buy white goods for the kitchen, I can't afford to buy white goods for the kitchen, WE could afford to eat out regularly, I can't afford to do the same, WE could afford for the boys to go on expensive school trips, I cannot afford to do the same.

One of the big advantages of being able to work is that in a lot of places, you are able to take on extra shifts/do overtime to cover expensive times of the year, you are able to get finance/credit for large household items (of course if your credit history is good)...in other words, you have choice. As a person on benefits, there is no choice (if you play it by the book as I do), there is just not the funds there to cover the unforeseen extras or the availability of credit.

My stress comes from having to be on call 24/7, little contact with the outside world, no nights off, no evenings out and more importantly to me, not being able to work because as soon as I start thinking about it and applying, all hell lets loose with the boys and their health.

Not all single parents have never worked, not all single parents produce babies willy nilly (mine were all born during marriage) and not all single parents sit on their bottoms doing sweet FA.

Oh and not all NRP's (which can be male and female) support their children to the extent other NRP's do.....just because one is playing by the rules does not mean others are too.

xxtokerxx

Jowo I really don't understand your continual bashes towards my position.

With regards to your "numeracy" bash.

Lets say you, know a good figure of 880, but of that 40k was earned by the man with CSA. that means per week you could take home £560 per week, the partner say earning 20k would receive £265.40 a combined income of £825.

The CSA payment on the father amount would be £84 per week. leaving the combined income at £741. which equates to £3,211 monthly

Take into consideration the average cost for a 2 bed flat in this area your going to be looking at say £800 at best, £200 on household bills and council tax at best (being very conservative here for your benefit) so that leaves £2,2k at best after just the house is paid for.

Then you would have to take into considerations such as cars, average car costs an individual £200-£300 per month (before you start moaning start considering the cost of insurance, fuel, tax, repairs - again been exceptionally conservative here), we both need cars for work so lets just say £400 to please you.

The outstanding amount for "disposable" income is left at £1.8k which equates to £900 per head which equates to £208 per week.

You statement of £200 from the public per week would then mean an additional £84 from the couple meaning that she would receive 284 per week and would not have the worries and the bills associated with some one who works 50+ hours and shares a small 2 bed flat.


Now my figures have been exceptionally conservative considering the cost of living is so high I personally currently spend £200 on fuel alone at the moment.

So yeah I feel its pretty tough to consider a family has to pay for child care on top of this in order for the family to work and pay their bills which brings another expense, another stress and the child is left without there parents comfort for a few hours.

So Jowo before you start another bash maybe consider the counter argument first hand.

Why does the family that pays £6,200 from the partner, £11,104 a grand total of £18,000 in tax and £4,368 in child support be forced to see their child less and have more stress on their plate for a similar amount of disposable income.

Meaning that despite all our hard work, efforts etc. etc. that we are actually no better off in terms of the quality of life we can lead!

Jowo_2

SingleSue wrote: »

...
Prior to the divorce and the having to give up my job to care for 3 disabled children , ex hubby earned in the region of 45k a year, I earned (part time because of the boys needs), approx 10-15k a year. I can tell you right now, we were way way way better off financially than I am now.

...

Oh SingleSue, how terrible to hear that you don't lounge on the sofa all day with a fag in one hand, counting out wads of dosh with the other, having swapped your children for a West Life CD...

You must be doing something wrong because the OP is convinced that you should be living it large with the latest consumer goods.

tooldle

I'm not sure why this has gone so far off track. Surely all the OP is asking for, is an indication of the amounts received.
We all know that a single pensioner gets x amount of state pension and a couple get x+x, and that where income is below a certain amount, pension credit applies. I'm guessing housing benefit is a possible as well.
Why is it considered insulting for the tax payer to know a ball park figure for a single parent with two kids? Surely its simply a case of xxx from IS, child benefit, tax credit, housing benefit or mortgage interest (variable depending on cost of area) , council tax benefit, and then on top maintenance (if received) and any other benefits. In my area the council tax is £150ish per month and rent for a house around £800. I can see that a working family may well be piced out of the area, whilst a family dependent on benefits may not be (subject to the LHA of course).
You have to compare like with like and in my opinion that should be the total income and not the expenses. Expenses are to some degree choices.

xxtokerxx

SingleSue wrote: »

Oh now that really made me laugh...less stress? I'll say it in capitals as it is so laughable...LESS STRESS?

Sign me up please for the less stress, oh sorry, I am supposed to have less stress already as a single (through divorce I hasten to add) parent on benefits.

Prior to the divorce and the having to give up my job to care for 3 disabled children , ex hubby earned in the region of 45k a year, I earned (part time because of the boys needs), approx 10-15k a year. I can tell you right now, we were way way way better off financially than I am now.

WE could afford to buy white goods for the kitchen, I can't afford to buy white goods for the kitchen, WE could afford to eat out regularly, I can't afford to do the same, WE could afford for the boys to go on expensive school trips, I cannot afford to do the same.

One of the big advantages of being able to work is that in a lot of places, you are able to take on extra shifts/do overtime to cover expensive times of the year, you are able to get finance/credit for large household items (of course if your credit history is good)...in other words, you have choice. As a person on benefits, there is no choice (if you play it by the book as I do), there is just not the funds there to cover the unforeseen extras or the availability of credit.

My stress comes from having to be on call 24/7, little contact with the outside world, no nights off, no evenings out and more importantly to me, not being able to work because as soon as I start thinking about it and applying, all hell lets loose with the boys and their health.

Not all single parents have never worked, not all single parents produce babies willy nilly (mine were all born during marriage) and not all single parents sit on their bottoms doing sweet FA.

Oh and not all NRP's (which can be male and female) support their children to the extent other NRP's do.....just because one is playing by the rules does not mean others are too.

Think your missing the point to - we can all appreciate that certain personal circumstances are different.


You say laughable at less stress, how much do you owe on your mortgage, how much do you pay to maintain and run your car so that you can get to work, put that on top of your requirements to look after your family and suddenly it all changes.

The stress you get from a high earning job plus additional stress of your family, plus the additional stress of mortgage and rent etc.

See where I am going with this? I want a house, I have to save up circa 30k to afford to buy where I live for a simple property, once I manage to save that up I then need to repay a mortgage.

This wasn't an attack on single mothers or fathers. this was a comparison of should I go out and spend most of my life working for a company just so I can feed and house my family while others don't work when they can work and claim all the benefits they want.

Sure they won't "own" their house, but what difference does that offer in the grand scheme of things?

They'll still be able to eat good foods and spend most of their life with their children and not at work.

You see what I am getting at here,

Why can't I spend all my time with my family and others think oh well a single mother can but that must be awful how does any one cope in this world..?!?

What a load of tosh.

I've met and been involved with a lot of families that have exploited the system and they do just that, watch tv all day and fart !!!! around, at the same time I have seen the families that have been on benefits but have picked them selves up and work full time now and used the system for what it is.

Sure Sue your circumstances may be different and this is not directly at you.

It's funny how some people have got upset and think that this is me complaining about all the single mothers in the world, it isn't.

It's merely me initially wondering how much some one gets on benefits, being quiet alarmed at the amount they get and comparing it to a situation where should I get a good job in the next 10-15 years saying circa 40k and should my partner get a good part time job paying circa 20k how much difference is there in the cost of living?

It seems to be that a couple earning 60k vs a single mother claiming benefits and CSA are pretty similar in terms of the luxuries they can afford and the food that they can afford to eat.

If you wanted me to single out some cases I could quiet happily tell you I know a family where the mother has 5 kids, she is in her late 40's I don't know how much she earns but she has a LARGE 5 bedroom house.

She smokes 40 fags a day, so that's what 12 quid a day (£360 a month)

Her husband drinks 4 pack of beer every day that's what a fiver a day so another £150.

They have a car, they always have "big shops" stocking up on cheaper foods but lots of, she kids all seem to have nice clothes and they have PS3's, Xbox's etc.

now I am certainly not saying this is you, so don't take this as a personal attack which is what every one seems to be doing while I am just expressing an opinion.

But I couldn't afford to do that right now, and while I don't earn 40k right now and don't have 5 kids and don't have a house I feel slightly angry that people can do this to the system.

So when I say that I will spend 15-20 years working my !!!! off to provide for my family and my partner does the same that we only have a similar quality of disposable income?

Yet these people can leech off the system?

Compare that to my actual current comparison where the mother has 2 kids, 1 of which is mine and she will be receiving her benefits from the government, my self and the other father who also funnily enough is no longer with her and paying through the CSA that she'll be better off.

I grew up and my mum was divorced, she didn't take benefits, she worked and she has a house (some money left over in the separation to allow her to get a mortgage).

I think she was maybe slightly more stressed out by having to fund her family than by taking off the government. She could have not bought the house and had a nice cash lump sum in some bank some where and claimed all the benefits and we would have lived a much happier life with more disposable income and more time with our family.

The funny thing is she choose to work what she wanted. Again Sue I am not saying that you are different.

You people are trying to look into specific situations and I agree that benefits help people and that child support should be given by NRP's.

Just think that too many people get a little more than what they should be entitled to, are they going to say no? damn right their not! are they going to say they get to much? maybe some but most wouldn't want to "risk" what they get since they are living a decent life.

Jesus, this thread has really got into peoples views and what do you think and I think, I mean lets be honest I asked a question in a forum which is about benefits, probably highlighting the fact the majority of people responding will probably be on benefits.

Some of which probably use them for the good of their life and family, some will be claiming child support from NRP's which is all reasonable.

others will be milking the system, taking the opportunity to drain the NRP of their quality of life, forcing more stress upon them.

Don't take things personally nothing here is aimed at any one in particular, we all know there are holes in the system and my interest to find out how much she would be entitled to was a valid one - like the way we're not even talking about that any more.

Personally I feel that the system and myself are being exploited and there is no way of controlling it.

Say what you like moving forward but I know in my heart that our country is struggling with finances while others smoke 40 fags a day, drink 5 pints of beer and treat their children to electrical gadgets and purposely fail interviews so that they can continue living their tax free work free life while we all suffer.

xxtokerxx

tooldle wrote: »

I'm not sure why this has gone so far off track. Surely all the OP is asking for, is an indication of the amounts received.
We all know that a single pensioner gets x amount of state pension and a couple get x+x, and that where income is below a certain amount, pension credit applies. I'm guessing housing benefit is a possible as well.
Why is it considered insulting for the tax payer to know a ball park figure for a single parent with two kids? Surely its simply a case of xxx from IS, child benefit, tax credit, housing benefit or mortgage interest (variable depending on cost of area) , council tax benefit, and then on top maintenance (if received) and any other benefits. In my area the council tax is £150ish per month and rent for a house around £800. I can see that a working family may well be piced out of the area, whilst a family dependent on benefits may not be (subject to the LHA of course).
You have to compare like with like and in my opinion that should be the total income and not the expenses. Expenses are to some degree choices.

Thanks for understanding my original question - to be honest I don't know why I am here trying to defend my self against others when I wanted simple answers.

It's actually got the point where I feel like people are trying to get personal and feel like I need to make a response.

I am just another UK tax payer, paying his bills, funding his child working long hours and this had lead into some of my opinions and some personal situations. This was all suppose to be a simple understanding of the benefits system.

SingleSue

I too have to make sure my car is maintained, tax, insured and with fuel....it is an essential with my children.

I too worked in a stressful job...in fact, in my past, I was a high rate tax payer but the stress is different, I thrived on the work stress, the thrill of working to tight deadlines, the feeling of doing a job well even if it meant staying way over the hours. The stress I have now is not the sort that invigorates.

You don't have to buy a house you know, rent is available (we rented even with our earnings), there is no shame in it.

My ex husband does pay maintenance but a hell of a lot less than you do a week...he gave up his well paying job, moved 400 miles away and took a minimum wage job instead.

And I can quite and truthfully say that as a single parent on benefits receiving maintanence, our finances were a hell of a lot healthier before on 60k. We did have more money, we could afford more luxuries...but then my ex husband didn't have other children to pay for as we married so young (we were together for 20 years).

Maybe the moral of the story is to only have one family....I know I would have preferred it that way for us (I took my marriage vows extremely seriously)

My point was that no-one can judge the stresses someone has, single parent on benefits or working. My life is stressful, it was stressful as part of a marriage (with us both working) and it is still stressful now, possibly more so as I very rarely get downtime, at least before, I could get some time out on my own socially.

I still have to stress about the bills being paid, the car being maintained, the logistics of the different hospital, doctor, specialist therapy and school appointments. I still have to stress about medication given on time, to keep up the parenting controls (way more than a 'normal' parent) but there is no-one else here to take up the extra, it is down to me on my lonesome.

Ok, I may not be a typical single parent on benefits but the problem with the rants about single parents, is that each and every one of us (male or female single parents), is then tarred with the same brush....i.e, that we all sit on our bottoms and do nothing all day whilst watching the benefits roll in.

For the record, I used to rant the same as yourself when I was part of a working couple but it took my current circumstances to really open my eyes to the reality.

lauzellen

I'm sorry but i had to laugh at your figures for disposable income... you are saying half it to make it per head making it at £208 for each person in the couple.. well take your £284 and divide it by 3 (1 adult and 2 kids) to get the per head disposable income for that house hold.. I make it £94.67. Doesn't look so rosey now does it!? Also the lady in question may not have to pay council tax but WILL have to pay gas, electric, water rates etc etc.

A couple with "£416 a week" disposable income is in a much better position than a single parent of 2 children with "£284 a week" disposable income.

I'm a single parent and have been in the position where I was on benefits for a relatively short period of time and I can tell you it is no easy ride and very stressful! Very rare is all the rent covered unless you live in a run down mould covered damp house terraced house (even then some still have to find a bit extra on top) - and I simply wouldn't expose my child to THAT so take the extra for the rent out of the disposable income. I am now working and I can tell you i'm in a much much better position than I was in on benefits and I don't earn your household income of 52K!

I think your view is very distorted.

ETA: Even if the lady was working you would still have to pay the same amount in maintenance...

Also yes if people have more children they get more off the state.. I do agree with some of your points but if you haven't been in the position you can't comment on what the situation must be like.