Helpful links ... Suggestions please

mo786uk

Perhaps a FAQ? A common question is whether shops have to sell you goods at an advertised price. I will write up an answer to that one in my next post and then in the meantime people can just link to that or copy and paste if they so wish....

mo786uk

Do shops have to sell goods at the avdertised price?

The simple answer is NO!

- you cannot force a shop to sell you something

- this applies to correctly and incorrectly priced items

- this applies to ALL types of shops - whether they are online internet stores or offline physical stores

- internet shops can to refuse to honour prices even after they have taken your money

- if you think a retailer is intentionally trying to misleading with pricing then you should report this to your local Trading Standards, which can be done via the Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline (08454 04 05 06)

A more detailed explanation of the law can be found below.


A shop has advertised a product at £10. I have tried to buy it but they have said the product is actually £20 and they made a mistake. Do they have to sell me the product at the advertised price of £10?

This is a question best answered from both a civil and criminal point of view.

Civil law = your rights as a consumer against a business. If your civil rights have been breached you can take a business to civil court and one remedy is monetary damages.

Criminal law = action that can be taken by a public body to prosecute a business for breaking the law. This usually ends in a fine or prison.

Civil

When you buy an item from a shop you and the shop are entering into a contract. Let take an example of buying a product from a supermarket.

You go into the shop and see a price label for £10. This is an invitation to treat. This is basically the shop saying we will take £10 for the item if you are willing to offer it.

When you take the item to the till you are making an offer. Which is basically saying 'I am willing to offer you £10 for this item'.

The £10 you are offering is consideration. This is you promising to pay them £10. The shops promise or consideration is the item they are going to give you for the £10. Most contracts have to have some form of consideration (although not all).

Finally, the shop can decide whether to accept or not. At this stage they can still refuse to sell you the product and they are under no obligation to. Only when they have accepted your offer is the contract complete and they are bound to sell you the product for £10.

Both parties must be willing to enter in a contract and there must be a meeting of the minds. This is where both sides are totally clear what the terms of the contract are. Clearly if the shop and customer disagree on the price there cannot be a meeting of the minds.

Some shops will sell you an item for the price they have marked it just for the sake of good customer service but they are not under a legal obligation to do so.

So, effectivley there can be no contract until the shop accepts.

From a practical point of view it is pretty easy to see this in practice in a real life shop as the contract usually complete when they take your money and give you the item.

Its a bit more difficult with online transactions because it is not always clear when a contract has been formed. In the past online retailers would accept as soon as you made a payment. However due to a few cases where shops lost money through pricing mistakes most shops now only accept your offer when they send the item out. This means even if you pay for an item, the shop has not actually accepted your offer even though they have taken your money - this means they can cancel the order. You should read the terms and conditions of the retailer to see what their stance is on pricing errors and when the contract is formed.

Finally, there may arise a situation where you have managed to pay for an item at a lower price and the shop has only realised after you have paid for the goods and taken the item (where the contract is complete for all intents and purposes). In this scenario the shop has sold you the item and you are not under an obligation to pay the difference, although you can do if you want to.

Criminal

Does a shop have to display prices?

The Price Marking Order 2004 is the legislation that makes shops have to display prices for goods. Prices must include VAT and be clearly legible. Items do not have to be individually price (i.e they can use a price list) but the prices should be available so that the customer does not have to ask for them.

There is currently no law that specifies that prices must be displayed for services. This is currently controleld by the Consumer Protection fron Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 under misleading omissions. What this means is that there is no blanket answer for every situation, instead it depends on whether the lack of price can influence customers decision to buy. Lets say you go to a bar and order a lemonade. There are no prices listed. Chances are you expect the drink to cost around £1. If it does infact cost £1 you are probably happy with that and the lack of a price list hasn't influenced your decision to buy. Now lets say the lemonade costs £5. Clearly this could now mean you would not have ordered the drink had you know this. This sort of scenario is where the lack of pricing could be a misleading omission. In my opinion its a bit of a flaw in the law(!).

Was it a simple mistake or are the shop purposely misleading customers with incorrect pricing?

This is all covered by the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Without going into too much depth it can be a criminal offence for a shop to mislead consumers about the price of a product and the way in which it was calculated.

This legislation also prevents businesses from purposefuly taking orders for a product they know they cannot supply so that they can get you into their shop (bait advertising) or from taking orders for a product but then trying to get the customer to buy another product (bait and switch). Mind you there is criteria for deciding what these are, but I have simplified it here for you.

So finally, the question is was it just a mistake? This really depends on whether the shop changes the mistake ASAP and whether they do it often. In the grand scheme of things a pricing error is no big deal for the authorities to bother taking action on. I would however suggest that you report all incidents where you believe the shop has tried to decieve you. The more information the authorities have the easier it is for them to see which companies are clearly breaking the law.

somethingcorporate

mo786uk wrote: »

Its a bit more difficult with online transactions because it is not always clear when a contract has been completed.

Overall great post Mo786uk, very helpful.

I think you mean 'formed' in this sentence rather than 'completed' though.

dmg24

gordikin wrote: »

DSR...a Board Guide on a Consumer Thread on MSE does not know what these 3 letters mean...care to comment?

It used to be the case that BG's took an interest in the subject of the board. Apparently not anymore ...

(Not a dig at you squeaky, just an observation as to why so many boards have gone downhill.)

somethingcorporate wrote: »

Overall great post Mo786uk, very helpful.

I think you mean 'formed' in this sentence rather than 'completed' though.

An interesting post, but far too long for anyone wanting a quick answer to their question.

dmg24

Here we go ...

:: How do you become a Board Guide?

Board Guides were chosen from the many regulars that use particular boards and who wanted to give something back to the site.

While we currently have sufficient Board Guides, now and then we post on the This Site board asking for volunteers. Generally the person picked would be someone that has used that particular board a lot and already understands how it works. An enthusiasm for keeping that board running smoothly and helping newbies find the information they need quickly and easily is the key.

I think Freddie would be awesome ... or of course, my dear gordikin.

somethingcorporate

dmg24 wrote: »

Here we go ...



I think Freddie would be awesome ... or of course, my dear gordikin.

+1

blahblahtooshort

gordikin

dmg24 wrote: »

Here we go ...



I think Freddie would be awesome ... or of course, my dear gordikin.

Freddie is and would be a leg end...cough...sorry a legend!

Squeaky I'm not asking BG's to be experts....just that they have a grasp of basics on the forums they look after. You not knowing what DSR means vexes me. Why didn't you take the time to Google it?

squeaky

gordikin wrote: »

Freddie is and would be a leg end...cough...sorry a legend!

Squeaky I'm not asking BG's to be experts....just that they have a grasp of basics on the forums they look after. You not knowing what DSR means vexes me. Why didn't you take the time to Google it?

Speed.

AND...

..as I've repeatedly said - to deliberately make the point that a links/terms/faq sticky would help newcomers to the board who will not be familiar with acronyms that you use every day.

A fair number of posters here are "one time callers". They pop in because they have a problem or query - and then wander off when done. It's clear that some have not done a great deal of (if any) research (or in fact found MSE via their search); and/or found the various resources on line difficult to interpret or to apply to their individual problem.

Not everyone, even so, will read the sticky but a fair proportion will (from experience and observation) and this all helps the board along.


As for "interest in the board"...

a) To the best of my knowledge we have no current BG's with expertise in this field - and if we do, they are not stepping forward to volunteer for a board which, I'm given to understand, has seen a fair few BG's come and go.

b) No, I've not been a regular poster, or reader... but I am now. I'm finding the board fascinating and interesting (and not in the sense of the Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times")

c) If regular posters want an "expert" BG alongside an "operational" one such as myself... then you are going to have to find one from among your number and put yourself forward as a volunteer.


As for being vexed... why not just let it go and start again? I chose not to google it to help make my point. Under ordinary circumstances I learn fast and I have a good memory and, as a long term board guide (and moderator on other forums), I'm a fair hand at finding my way around.

And once again... if you don't like the current Board Guide system in use - then hit the report button and take it up with the Forum Team. This aspect of the current discussion really should be taken up with them. So hit the button...

squeaky

Good morning everyone

I've laid out the bare bones of our Read Me sticky and placed a few markers in it so you can get some idea of what the finished article could look like.

Over the next few days I'll be working through the suggestions in this thread and adding them into the posts and marker points.


I will be keeping the Read Me thread closed, and be using this separate thread for any comments and suggested changes and additions.

From experience I've found that it helps. Especially with a brand new build because I may need to add extra posts as the list grows. If comment posts are added to the thread this becomes difficult, almost impossible, to do without deleting posts that would otherwise sit between the information posts.

ShaneUK

Gordikin - why are you constantly picking on Squeaky?

Squeaky has done NOTHING wrong, merely asked - perhaps not for him/her - for your to clarify what DSR stood for. Most users may know, but the problem with acronyms is that not everyone knows what they stand for. I expect that in hindsight, perhaps Squeaky could have raised the post a little differently for the assistance of others, perhaps something along the lines of "for those not in the know, DSR is....".

However - the whole point of this post being started was as a helpful post to all users, old and new, with links to various parts of, for example, consumer law. For you to make a post with no link doesn't really help anyone.

Can I please suggest though that we now act like the adults that we are, stop bickering, and draw a line under this subject, and just post helpful links and comments.

Squeaky - welcome to the board as a BG and lets hope your "experience" from here on in is much better.