MSE News: Benefits shake-up to introduce Universal Credits

Prinzessilein

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

So I am getting out of bed for £4 every day. The way I felt this morning, I could happily have sacrified today's £4 for the chance of sleeping a little longer.

And I would happily give up every penny of my benefits if I could have enough health restored to enable me to earn a wage again.

'Better off working' does not just mean financially - not to me. I used to work, before my medical conditions worsened. I had to travel by train and two buses. (I am not permitted to drive on medical grounds), By the time you took off my travel expenses, I was working for just a pound or two over what I would have got in benefits.

But I had a reason to get out of bed in the morning. (Really, really early!) I didn't always enjoy my work but most days I felt I was making a difference to the community. On the days that the sheer mind-numbing tedium of the job got me down, I held on to the self-satisfaction that comes from knowing that I was working to pay my bills - trust me there is pride in being able to say that you have paid the electric bill.

These days I live in social housing, adapted for my disabilities, I rely on state benefits (IB, IS and DLA plus housing/council benefit).Without the DLA I would be unable to live on my own - I'd be in a home, costing the government a lot more!

I only wish I could work. Not simply for the financial benefits (although I wouldn't say no to some extra money - contrary to popular opinion, most people on benefits struggle to cope financially) but for the other benefits that being able to work would bring.

Instead of which I live in constant fear that the little I get will be taken from me.

Jowo_2

Yes, its fairly common to see posts on MSE recommending low or no profit self-employment with advice that gives the impression that it is fairly easy for someone selling tat on ebay to make it tally as 16 hours per week by the time they factor in the trip to the post office, filling in records of the sale, buying or finding the tat to sell in the first place.

So I do wonder if the govt has cottoned on that tax credits has in a way crippled the profit drive for some households, has removed the risk inherent with self-employment by actually rewarding those with dismal business skills, encouraging someone to bimble along with their pocket money hobbies because they get a big top up from the public purse for virtually no effort or outlay.

Personally, I think this thread should be moved to Discussion Time.

ska_lover

plumber2009 wrote: »

So my view is that single parents with children should get nothing as this this the root cause of the problem, not those looking for work.
QUOTE]

What is your problem with single parents Plumber? Why would you have them held destitute, but you seem to have no problem with those who are able, but not actually looking for work?

Please do not tell me that you believe the Vikky Pollard clap trap that you hear in the papers that young women get themselves pregnant as they aspire to be single parents living on benefits in a council flat?

Many single parents find themselves single as a result of what a an ex-partner has done to them- beat them, ran off with someone else etc. There are no guarantees in relationships that you will be forever. I don't think there are many people who plan to be single parents.

It really enrages me when I see people bashing single parents, as it is a hard enough job, without some old fashioned prejudices being thrown at them. Most single parents I know actually go to work and pay their own way in life.

In my opinion, the worst contenders are far more the immigrants that we support, illegal or otherwise we end up paying for the lot.

staffsuk

Hang on though - those people and their 'lifestyle' choices are not me!

I work over 40 hours/week - am single with no children (as such have to work 30+ hours/week to be eligible).

You mention people setting up 'bogus businesses' to claim Tax Credit - I assume from that you suggest they are in fact not working or generating an income?

Well - could you live on £205 / month??? That's all I am entitled to by way of any benefit / credit and there is NO WAY I could live on that alone!

I will net short of the threshold this tax year - but my business is growing slowly but steadily.

I absolutely could not have got to where I am now without the Tax Credit boost in the last two years.

Could someone tell me what incentive the new proposals present to GENUINE people who want to start out in business? Knowing they may not make much initially - or perhaps a loss...

What's the bl@@dy point. They may as well just sign on and chase the non-existant jobs everyone else is chasing....

What a joke....

Fran

I am highly suspicious of any change the Tories are set to implement. I am not going to be hoodwinked by their "improvements". With his background, what can Cameron know about the difficulties faced when moving in and out of jobs?

From these replies it seems the Thatcherite "everyone for themselves" attitude is rearing its ugly head when times are hard. We should all practice more empathy not less during these heavy cuts.

It's time we stopped using inflammatory bullsh t phrases like "lifestyle choice" and "scroungers". The *majority* of people are genuine and do want to contribute and we should start from that premise, so
before applauding a change that gives unemployed less income after a year, think of the actual consequences of that.

It is really hard to cope financially after a year of unemployment whether you had a drastic cut in income through losing a job or whether you were already unemployed. People will get into even more debt and all the worry that brings and ultimately lose their homes. Then what? Who will pay to scoop people off the streets and where will they go?

plumber2009 wrote: »

...single parents with children should get nothing as this this the root cause of the problem

It's so easy to blame other people, the bad publicity that single parents get has succeeded!

plumber2009 wrote: »

All I needed was help in the short term but had none. I even did not get any JSA money until about a week before starting my new job.

This is a major difficulty for unemployed people, I hope they are going to close that gap.

In the bill: "An investigation service and regional taskforce will investigate every claim in high fraud areas".

What a waste of money! Why not put it into their own system to make sure it can't be defrauded and correct faults in *their system* eg. by improving staff training so mistakes are limited. How much will these costly investigations cost and where does that money come from?

Prinzessilein wrote: »

And I would happily give up every penny of my benefits if I could have enough health restored to enable me to earn a wage again....Instead of which I live in constant fear that the little I get will be taken from me.

The strain put on you and others like you really concerns me. There shouldn't be any question about it. People who need long terms benefits should receive them and know they have ongoing support.

Sixer

staffsuk wrote: »

Hang on though - those people and their 'lifestyle' choices are not me!

I work over 40 hours/week - am single with no children (as such have to work 30+ hours/week to be eligible).

You mention people setting up 'bogus businesses' to claim Tax Credit - I assume from that you suggest they are in fact not working or generating an income?

Well - could you live on £205 / month??? That's all I am entitled to by way of any benefit / credit and there is NO WAY I could live on that alone!

I will net short of the threshold this tax year - but my business is growing slowly but steadily.

I absolutely could not have got to where I am now without the Tax Credit boost in the last two years.

Could someone tell me what incentive the new proposals present to GENUINE people who want to start out in business? Knowing they may not make much initially - or perhaps a loss...

What's the bl@@dy point. They may as well just sign on and chase the non-existant jobs everyone else is chasing....

What a joke....

Staffsuk - I don't think anybody's comments were directed at you. But I think what Jowo and I have said is probably an accurate reflection of government thinking on this:

a) it is too easy to pretend a pocket money job is genuine, full-time self-employment in order to qualify for considerable sums in benefit

b) it is not the place of the benefits system to fund business start-ups. This function belongs to banks and other financiers.

On a personal note, I would be inclined to agree with both these rationales. However, it would be nice to see the government pursuing companies using 'contractors' or other dodgy methods of 'self-employment' in order to get out of paying NMW, NICs, holiday pay and sick pay et al. If it's sauce for the goose, it should be sauce for the gander also.

ETA: added post I was responding to after threads were merged.

Fran

ska_lover wrote: »

..the worst contenders are far more the immigrants

I was with you all the way in your clear and well put reply about single parents.

Then you went and spoiled it all by blaming another group of people instead.

tod123

From these replies it seems the Thatcherite "everyone for themselves" attitude is rearing its ugly head when times are hard. We should all practice more empathy not less during these heavy cuts.

unfortunately we have a situation where working people are losing 50% of their wages in direct & indirect taxes , we simply cannot afford the current level of 'empathy' , apart from those whose disabilities prevent ANY type of work , everybody else should be looking after themselves, and not relying on me to feed and clothe their families!

jamespir

tod123 wrote: »

unfortunately we have a situation where working people are losing 50% of their wages in direct & indirect taxes , we simply cannot afford the current level of 'empathy' , apart from those whose disabilities prevent ANY type of work , everybody else should be looking after themselves, and not relying on me to feed and clothe their families!

50 % is an exaggeration plus those on benefits pay vat too

spaceman5

jojo90 wrote: »

Any change is welcome however I would have liked to see a more hardline approach. I won't say this often however I think the US system has got it right.



Seems fair to me. If you work and lose your job then you get help based on how much you put into the pot. If you choose not to work you get nothing. It's not rocket science.

Personally I think the £26,000 limit for families out of work is a joke and hardly any encouragement.

:eek: :eek:time to pack in working for a living i think, i work on average 50 hours per week(only get paid for 43 of them, but that is a different story altogether), and the mrs works an average of 20 hours per week, and we will be lucky to take home £26,000 for this financial year:eek::eek: