LloydsTSB (merged)

Taffyfella

madbird32 wrote: »

I'm ready to post my letter to our bank, asking for charges back.
I'm a bit confused as to where I should send second letter.
Does it go to our own branch, or should we send it off to their head office department, ( Lloyds tsb). As we don't want any delay, ie, them telling us, oh, you've sent it to the wrong departement. We want to do this the correct way, so we don't have any delays in this process, ( god know's it's hard enough without added stress!
Any response would be much appreciated.
thanks
madbird

Hi madbird,

The advice we have given before is to use the banks registered address for the court papers. If you have already done this, it's fine. The advice from the courts service when issuing a claim is to always use the registered address of the company you are making a claim against........................

However..............

Because we are talking about major international companies here. You can also use your local branch address for the court claim. The biggest impact the address has, is if your claim gets as far as sending the bailiffs in. They could recover any property from your local branch to cover the amount of any claim. The recent story in the press about bailiffs being sent to the bank involved a local branch.

Here is the registered address for Lloyds:

LLOYDS TSB BANK PLC
25 GRESHAM STREET
LONDON
EC2V 7HN

And don't forget to send correspondence via recorded/special delivery.

Good luck

Taff

nat100red

I have sent the letter to Lloyds asking for a £30 charge to be refunded. It is the only charge I have had in the last 4 years and I received it for going over my overdraft limit for one day.

I have received a response basically telling me to get lost.

Do you think it is worthwhile pursuing it as it will cost me £30 (I know this is refunded if I win)?

Cheers

Nat

robert_harper_2000

I've just started for £12! lol
Its the principle

Make sure you get your interest of pennies too! I am

charlie_yankee

Lloyds TSB sent the following reply to my step son - the exact same as reply I got sent - i presume it is now standard?

Dear

Thank you for getting in touch with us. I am sorry you are unhappy about our account charges.

Like any business, we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When customers don’t have enough in their accounts to cover a payment, this always means extra work – and it has to happen very quickly. We have to agree to make the payment by setting up or increasing an overdraft, or tell customers we can’t agree it. We feel it’s fair to charge for this service.

Of course it’s only fair too, that we’re completely open about any charged – for services before you might need them. That’s why we take care to give every new customer the latest guide to our charges. You can also get up-to-date details about fees and borrowing rates at all our branches, through our helpline and on our website.

Just as importantly, we do everything we can to help our customers avoid these charges. You can get an up-to-date balance at any of our cash machines, over the phone, on line and by weekly text to your mobile.

If you know a payment is going to take you over your agreed limit, you’re welcome to see if there is anything we can do.

The Office of Fair Trading has published new guidelines on credit card default charges. We’re still talking it through with them, but the important point is that the guidelines are about ‘default’ charges that people pay when they break an agreement with us. This doesn’t apply to your charges as these were for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit. They are not default charges because you have not broken your agreement. These are prices for the service we provide in these situations.

I understand that you may also have some concerns about sharing information about your relationship with us with the credit reference agencies we use. I’d like to reassure you that this does not apply to bank charges; we only share what is known as white data, which is information about payments to your credit card, loan or mortgage accounts.

I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible – and why I can’t agree to cancel your charges.

I hope this fully answers the points you raised with us. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help. If we cannot come to an agreement, I will provide you with details of the Financial Ombudsman Service so they can consider your complaint independently.

If you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need for you to reply to my letter. If I have not heard from you by 27 May 2007 I will close my file, though of course I will re-open it should you come back at any point afterwards

my response to these is below


I write in response to your letter of 16 March 2007 (received 23 March 2007) refusing my request for a refund of bank charges. I note your position is that I am not entitled to a refund because the terms and conditions of my account allow you to impose charges where I have insufficient funds in my account.

I also note your suggestion that I can complain to the Financial Services Ombudsman if dissatisfied with this decision. However, please be advised that it would be inappropriate to complain to the Financial Services Ombudsman where the only forum which can determine a dispute on the legality of charges is my local court. I would ask you to note the following.

Your bank insists it can impose charges in accordance with its terms and conditions of contract. However, those terms and conditions are subject to the common law and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR). Indeed, the UTCCR takes precedence over any contractual term where the court finds a term to be ‘unfair’. The court can then treat that term of contract as having no legal effect.

The question that arises is this: are your charges unfair in terms of the UTCCR? 0n 26 July 2005 the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would be likely to award if the lender sued the cardholder for breach of contract'. So what would the court award your bank for my minor breach of contract?

As you will be aware, the court will only award (in a non-negotiated consumer contract) a sum to reimburse actual loss. Your charges do not reflect actual loss. Rather, they include a massive profit margin or penalty. Alternatively, they subsidise the bank's global debt recovery costs and lending losses. There is parliamentary evidence for this assertion.

When the UK banks gave evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges were calculated they said:

"[bank charges] are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (House of Commons, 2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50).

Accordingly, your charges do not reflect the actual loss in my case. They are an illegal penalty charge designed to recover money unconnected with the conduct of my account. Please advise whether you have an appeals procedure, and if so, please treat this letter as a request for an appeal against your decision not to refund charges.
The charges total £150.00, plus as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of the money I have calculated £32.49 interest at the statutory rate, the amount the court will award.

I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £182.49 - I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.

If I do not hear from you within the next 7 days, I will raise an action of payment at my local court. In that eventuality, I would require you to lodge in court financial vouching for the actual loss sustained in my case, together with your full financial accounts revealing how much income is generated from your bank charges, as against the cost of administering dishonoured transactions.

I look forward to your response.

I now suspect i need to prepare to make a small claim - can you advise stock letter that i can send - i currently have an overdraft and am worried they will close my account - any advice support?

cheers

Edinburghlass_2

Standard letter from the bank, use the template letter in Martin's article saying you will take them to court if there is no answer from them in 14 days.

Step-by-step Guides: Bank Charges: Reclaim Your Cash | Bank Charges Video Guide | Top New Bank Account Calculator: Charge them interest Template Letters: (right click and save) Ask for charge details |Initial letter | Second letter | Small claims note Get Updates On Important Changes: Free Weekly Money Tip

Tozer

There is a risk that the Court will view it as being de minimis and that it is not reasonable to start proceedings and incur costs for both parties for such a small amount. Probably unlikely given the volume of bank cases on at the moment.

Tozer

VeryTrying wrote: »

Instead of taking Tozer's word for it (which seems to be regularly repeated without any actual evidence), why doesn't everybody have a look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/ and the other bank forums where you can see threads about successful claims for more than six years' worth of charges.

There is one particular thread about getting back 13 years charges from HSBC. Nice.

Sorry to disagree, Tozer, but you can't just keep on repeating what is only your opinion when it is in such complete disagreement with the facts about what the banks are paying for. You can see why I suggested you might be working for the banks, you seem so keen to put people off claiming what they are entitled to.

No need to be rude is there? All I can go from is 14 years of experience as a solicitor. Sorry if that is not enough - will have to tell my clients who pay £350 per hour for my advice!

Not trying to put people off claiming and no, I don't work for a bank (think I've said that already) but really think the court process is not something to be abused.

Ivrytwr3

We did it for 2 x charges of £30 each and got the money back.

SWINNIE_2

Hi, just starting out with my claim from LSTB going back 6 years. Have today received letter from them which I now realise is a standard reply (patronising).
Anyone else in same position and want to share thoughts, help etc? I am only 1 month into this claim.

Tozer

The other thing to recognise is that simply because banks have paid does not mean to say that the claimant is right and that if it went to court the claimant would win.. VAST majority of litigation is settled for commercial or other reasons.