Women & Men's Roles, How you see them and where this view comes from...

nikkiuk

At the moment I do pretty much everything! We've just moved house and so I'm not working. My children are 9 and 11 so out at school every day and so it's not as if I am very busy with them. I do the washing/cooking/cleaning/shopping and organise the children and their lives. DH goes out to work and provides for us so I do feel guilty about asking him to do anything much around the house when I'm not contributing in any other way (either working outside the house or spending time with our children during the day)
That being said 9 times out of 10 it is him that loads and unloads the dishwasher (he doesn't like the way I do it lol) and he will iron clothes we need for the next day. He also does some cooking at the weekend because he enjoys it.
3 months ago it was a different story. We both worked and so I expected him to help out a lot more! I still did 70% of the shopping and 90% of the cleaning, but he cooked more during the week and I'd get him to run the hoover round if it needed doing!

Plans_all_plans

Hi rozmister, I had the same thought about where were the mums of the girls! No wonder they get married and have kids young: the sooner they have them, the sooner someone else is lumbered with all the work!

ETA: my nan has always said to me that from about the age of 6 her and her sister did almost all of the housework though. My mum is from a large family and her mother died when she was young so all the housework fell to the girls of the family - e.g. they ireoned and washed for their dad and brothers; the boys killed the chickens, the girls would pluck, gut and cook them!

heretolearn_2

I grew up as a proud feminist. Not sure where the influence was from as my parents were quite traditional (although since he's retired, my dad's learned to cook and throw the hoover around), I think it was all part of the 80s influence. Although I always was quite a tomboy and a daddies girl and enjoyed helping out with the car/gardening/decorating much more than with the household stuff, and my parents were fine with us doing what we were good at and encouraged us. I had both a set of Sindys and a set of action man stuff as a kid, for example.

I think that people should be able to have choices in life, men or women, according to their interests and talents, and not be restricted just according to whether they have a willy or not. That means they can take the traditional line if that suits them just as much as being a bit more 'modern' in their attitudes. If everyone in your house is happy with the arrangements, then it's right.

I have a career. I also spent 8 years as a SAHM. I AM a feminist and it makes me sick that it's become an insult in ignorant people's minds. the way I want my home to be is as a democracy, two equal people sharing life and chores and whatever comes along.

Having said that, I've ended up living with a really traditional man who thinks he is 'Head of the Household' (*snigger*) and can say that with a straight face, and who thinks that there are mens jobs and womens jobs. He won't cook or wash up, for example, and he wants to be in charge of finances etc. *sigh*. I grudgingly accept it as it's the way he was raised - he's another generation, he isn't British and his culture is totally man-centred, so in a way I feel he can't help it and he's too old to change too much now. I would no way accept any of this from a British bloke or someone my own age. He isn't as bad as most of the men from his culture, wouldn't touch them with a bargepole!

After a few fairly heated rows we've managed to find a sort of compromise, but it does annoy me still. He still says he's Head of the Household and comes up with some ridiculous off-pat comment about a ship can't have two captains. This isn't a ship, I say, it's a home. Won't budge. So I just say 'ok' but think that well, the loony bins are full of people who think they are Napolean, they are deluded as well! To be honest it's more a theoretical thing anyway, it doesn't make any difference day to day, he doesn't boss me about or anything.

On the chores, it does annoy me that he refuses to do some 'womens' things (i.e. wash up) but he does other stuff and overall it evens out. I wouldn't mind quite so much if he did all the 'blokey' stuff instead, but he doesn't, he's crap at DIY/repairs/gardening/maintenance etc as well so I'm the one to tackle that stuff.

I didn't know he felt this way until a few months after I'd moved in....

we muddle our way through it somehow. Mainly by the fact that he now pays for a cleaner and someone to come round and cut the grass :-) He wasn't happy with my standards of housework (I'm a slob, honestly, and I am NOT going to do it all either) so that's his solution rather than doing more himself. I don't mind :-)

FunnySaving

Has anyone noticed how the chores considered 'blokey' such as gardening, car maintenance etc are the kind of jobs which don't need doing all that often? Whereas shopping, cooking, laundry etc which are on a pretty much constant cycle requiring time spent on them every day are considered more 'girly'. I don't think that mowing the lawn once a fortnight is equivalent to doing a two weeks' worth of washing, drying, folding and ironing, and putting the bins out once a week isn't exactly as demanding as cooking every night.

I do think that traditional male roles are those which require 'specialist' knowledge, whereas female roles are generally the kind of things which one can pick up fairly easily. It does make me wonder whether it was traditionally the lack of female education which has perpetuated the idea that 'men's' work is more mentally demanding as well as physically. That and the tendency of men to be a little less risk averse so that jobs which are dangerous or have the potential to cause harm if done incorrectly are more attractive to men than women due to the evolutionary roles taken as hunter gatherer and child rearer respectively.

margaretclare

I didn't watch the TV programme but I did read about it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1352713/My-Big-Fat-Gypsy-Wedding-Cooking-cleaning-second-class-citizens.html

I could weep for the young lass aged 12 who, now her sister has got married, will have to leave school to do the cooking, cleaning etc. Supposing she wanted to stay on, to go to university, to qualify as something, become a professional in some respected field? Poor girl. Her life chances are cut off at a very young age, and for what? For a 'tradition', a culture? She has scarcely tasted life. What does anyone know at age 12? The 11-plus exam used to be much criticised for limiting children's choices at a very young age. There is so much more out there, a whole world to explore, and because she's a girl, she's told she has to spend her life doing the cooking and cleaning in a caravan. She'll never see anything.

As for the young guys and their habit of 'grabbing' - all I can say if one of them had tried that on with me he would have had his face well and truly smacked, that's if he didn't get a well-aimed kick in a very vulnerable spot!

I don't like housework, I've never understood the idea of making a 'career' of it, I always enjoyed the feeling of independence that comes from earning your own money and standing on your own feet. Even now at my age, the money I get comes from pensions that I contributed to myself.

DH appreciates an independent woman and he wouldn't have it otherwise.

Person_one

I'm single.

I'm the only 'breadwinner', do all the DIY, all the car maintenance, all the cooking and cleaning, all the washing and ironing, manage all the finances, take care of the pets by myself and do all the gardening.

Funnily enough, there's no such thing as male and female 'roles' when there's only one of them about and everything still needs doing!

Angel_Jenny

I do a book swap with a friend in America and she has sent me Passionate Housewives, Desperate for God this month. I haven't read much of it yet but it seems to be focused on the roles of men and women.

A quote from the introduction:

"In the 1970s, the pro-feminist bestseller Stepford Wives turned
the traditional housewife into a mindless, husband-pleasing,
yes-woman who was literally heartless—because, come to find
out, she was actually a robot. The message was clear: a woman
who faithfully serves her family, loves pleasing her husband, and
joyfully takes care of her home (from home) is not a “real person,”
but a contrived fantasy of her overbearing and selfish husband.

Instead of treasuring women and properly utilizing their
gifts, our culture has attempted to discard the beauty and
uniqueness of biblical womanhood and create an emotionally
androgynous power-woman whose worth is measured only
by the degree of her ambition, the shape of her body, and her
money-making potential. Rather than women renouncing this
affront to their dignity, amazingly, the slaves are demanding
their slavery!"

Not sure what I think of the book yet - it is interesting and I do have old fashioned views - I'm just not sure if the book goes a little too far.

Person_one

Angel_Jenny wrote: »

I do a book swap with a friend in America and she has sent me Passionate Housewives, Desperate for God this month. I haven't read much of it yet but it seems to be focused on the roles of men and women.

A quote from the introduction:

"In the 1970s, the pro-feminist bestseller Stepford Wives turned
the traditional housewife into a mindless, husband-pleasing,
yes-woman who was literally heartless—because, come to find
out, she was actually a robot. The message was clear: a woman
who faithfully serves her family, loves pleasing her husband, and
joyfully takes care of her home (from home) is not a “real person,”
but a contrived fantasy of her overbearing and selfish husband.

Instead of treasuring women and properly utilizing their
gifts, our culture has attempted to discard the beauty and
uniqueness of biblical womanhood and create an emotionally
androgynous power-woman whose worth is measured only
by the degree of her ambition, the shape of her body, and her
money-making potential. Rather than women renouncing this
affront to their dignity, amazingly, the slaves are demanding
their slavery!"

Not sure what I think of the book yet - it is interesting and I do have old fashioned views - I'm just not sure if the book goes a little too far.

Ugh, I think I feel a little nauseous.

Funnily enough, I prefer to be respected than 'treasured' and like nearly every woman I know my 'gifts' extend beyond husband pleasing and housework!

Also, since when are women there to be 'utilized'? Are we thinking, feeling autonomous beings with functioning brains or are we just another item to make use of like a hoover or a plot of land?

What does your friend think of the book?

diable

I think my GF is sexy and beautiful I go "WoW" when I see her and I try to make her life a little bit easier as she is hardworking, I will help as much as I can to make her life a little bit easier. Whats does that make me?

Person_one

diable wrote: »

I think my GF is sexy and beautiful I go "WoW" when I see her and I try to make her life a little bit easier as she is hardworking, I will help as much as I can to make her life a little bit easier. Whats does that make me?

Um, someone who is attracted to and is nice to their partner?

I don't know what you're getting at...