What next for North Africa/Middle East?

vivatifosi

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

Heathrow does on average 180,000 a day.

Yeah, but the Libyan's don't own our airspace. It would appear that you can't just land a plane in Libya, they will threaten to shoot you down if you try and land at some airfields and what's left of the Gadaffi regime will charge extra to evac from Tripoli.

The Chinese are taking their people out by ship, but I would also hazard a guess that the remnants of the regime wouldn't try and take on China whereas there are rumours that they may take people from other countries hostage. Though this is mostly supposition. Getting realistic fact out of the vestiges of the Gadaffi regime seems even more difficult than usual. After all, it's all Osama and the world media's fault, not theirs.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

vivatifosi wrote: »

After all, it's all Osama and the world media's fault, not theirs.

And don't forget the hallucinogenic drugs in the Nescafe.....

I made myself a cup this morning with great expectation. Nothing seems to be happening so far though.....

vivatifosi

Woah Hamish.... I nearly passed out at the sight of my own thread!

1984ReturnsForReal_2

vivatifosi wrote: »

Yeah, but the Libyan's don't own our airspace. It would appear that you can't just land a plane in Libya, they will threaten to shoot you down if you try and land at some airfields and what's left of the Gadaffi regime will charge extra to evac from Tripoli.

The Chinese are taking their people out by ship, but I would also hazard a guess that the remnants of the regime wouldn't try and take on China whereas there are rumours that they may take people from other countries hostage. Though this is mostly supposition. Getting realistic fact out of the vestiges of the Gadaffi regime seems even more difficult than usual. After all, it's all Osama and the world media's fault, not theirs.

They are going by ship because they can trust not getting blown out of the sky or having a blown up runway or overthrown airport not because evacuating by ship is quicker.

vivatifosi

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

They are going by ship because they can trust not getting blown out of the sky or having a blown up runway or overthrown airport not because evacuating by ship is quicker.

I've been doing some background reading since and even Bangladesh is managing to get its people out. Thailand is evacuating its people by ferry to Italy and has chartered 30 planes to ferry back from there. Bangladesh has arranged with Egypt and Tunisia to allow its people over the border without papers if necessary. China also took some other Asian nationals on its mercy ships. Its good to see how nations are working together. It must be scary to be Libyan though.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

vivatifosi wrote: »

I've been doing some background reading since and even Bangladesh is managing to get its people out. Thailand is evacuating its people by ferry to Italy and has chartered 30 planes to ferry back from there. Bangladesh has arranged with Egypt and Tunisia to allow its people over the border without papers if necessary. China also took some other Asian nationals on its mercy ships. Its good to see how nations are working together. It must be scary to be Libyan though.

Gaddafi would be selective about which plane he shot down.

diable

vivatifosi wrote: »

It's good to see Libyan diplomats worldwide stepping down in protest at the violence used against protesters. Never mind that many of them have worked for the same regime for many years and may be doing so with one eye to their own future career longevity.

Our Politicians will welcome them with open arms anything for a profit.......

vivatifosi

diable wrote: »

Our Politicians will welcome them with open arms anything for a profit.......

Funny you should say that. There is one Libyan diplomat that isn't getting much press, but who has said he has evidence that Gaddafi sanctioned the downing of the Pan Am plane and that the Al Megrahi did it. If that is the case, it will make the actions of Brown et al look even worse. Apparently Mandelson has had close links with Gaddafi's son - the one that has been on the news a lot lately - that's not really a surprise either is it?

lostinrates

Viva, this is a fascinating thread. I do hope the deviation was a minor blip and its really exciting in the way th board hasn'tbeen for a while to read about stuff that's more ''foreign'' to me.

The thing about the boats....I have my own theory on that, I think its a sensible plan. The thing about the oil company workers who were stranded in the desert....well, I heard them n Radio Four talking and feeling neglected and I did think of commenting at the time that it would be interesting to hear how much greater the outrage would be if they were current UK tax payers...I'm guessing that's a major bonus of working there?

I find it fascinating. My mother worked in and loved the Middle East, they were very happy times for her...and its a region that has been of interest...for all the wrong reasons...for a lot of my life....Gulf war and then recent wars....and its fascinating the lack of positivity and our fear about the unknown while we've both hated and supported various distasteful situations before. I have been before this, planning on reading more middle eastern modern history to try and gain a greater understanding and this has somewhat distracted me though I'm going to raid parent's library next week I think.

special thanks to Hamish, whose posts have been by far the most educational I've read here for a long time...on this subject

vivatifosi

I find it fascinating too lir, for all sorts of reasons. The fact that North Africa is a near neighbour; the impact on oil; the right to democracy; the price of freedom, and the interconnectedness to the global economy among others. Not least of all I remember that totalitarian regimes existed in the boundaries of the EU not that long ago. Anyone who took one of those early package holidays to Spain in the late 60s and early 70s did so to a fascist dictatorship. We have short memories of how recent this stuff was in our own continent, that's without consideration of what is still happening in the Balkans.

Like you I have no special knowledge of the region other than an interest in current affairs. I've been to Tunisia a lot and was absolutely amazed when it was the first country to fall because relatively speaking its people had it better than its near neighbours, even the ones with oil. However that's the only country in the region I've been to, though like most people I know lots of people who've worked in the region. This is why Hamish's contribution is so valuable, he understands the region better than us!

It strikes me that the distribution of people in Libya is not dissimilar to that in Australia, in that most people live in or near the coast as if you go too far inland it is inhospitable; however some hardy types live inland in both, because that is where the natural resources are. So it is possible to evacuate many of the workers by ship - or from Tripoli because there is a commercial airport open - but those inland in the oilfields, well that was always going to be a tricky issue as going in required a breach of Libya's airspace.

A further problem I have is with the assumption everyone working in the oilfields is an expat. For sure many will be. However I have friends who work for major oil companies who live in places like the Netherlands and UK and pay the taxes there but because of their technical expertise often get called out to oil rigs in the middle of nowhere. Some of these types of people will surely have been caught up in the evacuation.

Futhermore, I've personally been on an evacuation flight (though following a national disaster, not imminent civil war) and I can assure anyone who is worried that the government did charge for the priviledge of getting out! Oh, and they were late getting us out too.