MMR & autism Not just bad science but also falsified

DX2

Nicki wrote: »

So many jokes there, but so little time :rotfl:

There ARE five Asd children in Dd's class but she goes to a special needs school for children on the spectrum, and class sizes are that small. 5 per class is way way over the average, particularly if this is most classes in the school. Ds's 1 per school (a one form entry London primary) is far more in line with the official figures.

Easier for you to mock another poster.

Now I remember why I don't bother with the Family board. :T
Most ASD kids have been placed in mainstream school, many special schools have been closed. But knock yourself out love. Rather than discuss like an adult you insult me :wave:

poet123

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Off topic, Liverpool uni is great. I had such a good time there. I was in McNair halls on the Carnatic site. Ah, good times. Can't believe how much it's changed since i've left

I suspect you had good times in The Guild?;)

poet123

Nicki wrote: »

There was a weird kid in my class 30 years ago, and having an Asd child of my own I now can see she was probably autistic.

There aren't 5 Asd kids in my Ds's class, there is 1 in the whole school. The official figures are 1 in 100 children so don't know which schools you are talking about with 5 per 30!

Despite having one ASD child I was not advised my subsequent children shouldn't have the MMR contrary to what meritaten has said, and they have had it with no problems. Measles is a potentially fatal disease, mumps can lead to infertility and rubella can cause serious disabilities in unborn children, so in my opinion all those who can safely be vaccinated against these risks should be to protect those whose immune systems are so compromised they are unable to be vaccinated, and who could well die if they caught any one of these conditions from an unvaccinated child.

There are very many more children today who have Spld issues than in previous years. I work at a college and our numbers (of such students) are rising every year.

My own opinion is that some peope, are pre disposed to vaccine damage through underlying mitrochondrial disorders which are triggered by vaccine xyz. I also think that vaccine overload is something that needs more research.

Re measles, the fact remains that complications or death are rare, (in developed countries) and occur only in people with underlying health issues not healthy individuals.

[Deleted User]

poet123 wrote: »

I suspect you had good times in The Guild?;)

Certainly did, and the Raz I miss double vision and time tunnel nights (although the last time i went to one was 8 years ago)

Nicki

DX2 wrote: »

Easier for you to mock another poster.

Now I remember why I don't bother with the Family board. :T
Most ASD kids have been placed in mainstream school, many special schools have been closed. But knock yourself out love. Rather than discuss like an adult you insult me :wave:

There was no intention to insult you, and I apologise if you have taken it that way. However it is you who is claiming that in your area the rates if autism are nearly 20 times the national average :eek: That is odd, surely?

There are lots of special schools for children on the spectrum, but not all local authorities buy into this philosophy. Even in those authorities though, the most severely affected children can be educated out of authority in specialist provision, and in authorities where there are one or more special schools, some Asd children are educated in the mainstream. Not all kids on the spectrum need special school education. However that is some way off the point of this thread which is about MMR, so not sure why you are raising it?

Nicki

poet123 wrote: »

Re measles, the fact remains that complications or death are rare, (in developed countries) and occur only in people with underlying health issues not healthy individuals.

Which is why my post referred to the importance for those people with compromised immune systems for the rest of us to be responsible enough to vaccinate and allow them to benefit from herd immunity principles.

Added to which there have been cases reported in the media in recent years of apparently previously healthy children dying of measles. You may be right that they had undiagnosed health issues which contributed to that, but nonetheless the cause of death was still measles and not the other condition, which does tend to suggest had they been vaccinated they might well still be alive.

alm721

My son hasn't been vacinated. I don't believe that mmr causes autism but I do believe that in some immue compromised individuals it may be one of a multiple of things that for whatever reason 'flicks the switch' as it were.

My son does have many issues with some signs of asd (we are waiting for assessment) along with other problems. Obviously these were not 'caused by' the mmr as he hasn't had it, but I strongly felt (and still feel) that having it may make him worse.

There is autism in the family and there are auto immue disorders on both sides of his family. I really feel there are just too many variables involved to risk it. (Incidently both my health visitor and GP advised me against mmr given the situation).

I think this debate will never end as peoples perspectives will always vary. To all the people posting on here saying 'I have autism', the reality is that there is a spectrum (as you know), and the fact that you are on here posting suggests that you lead mostly normal lives. Sadly not all people with asd function this well.

I have a 24 year old brother who is severly autistic, is currently living in a residential setting and will never be independant. Never! He soils himself mostly daily and is unable to lead anything near a 'normal' live. Would I rather he be deaf? With all my heart yes!

I have little doubt that there is probably a genetic pre-disposition to asd, but I believe that there may be many factors that somehow can trigger asd type characteristcs of which mmr may well be one in certain individuals.

I do believe that mmr is safe for the vast majority of children, but I also think that for a significant minority it may well contribute to the development of asd. However, I cannot be certain indeed as no-one else can be. For all Wakefields research may have been flawed (and it was!) there equally is no research (nor will there ever be) that can absolutly catagorically state that mmr does not cause or contribute to autism, only reasearch which says no link has yet been found, the two are not the same thing!

coolcait

alm721 wrote: »

...

I cannot be certain indeed as no-one else can be. ...there equally is no research ... that can absolutly catagorically state that x does not cause or contribute to y, only reasearch which says no link has yet been found, the two are not the same thing!

And, much as I believe in vaccination, herd immunity, and the fact that Wakefeild's research was seriously flawed, I can still hear the above argument echoed in the advice we were given about the possibility of 'mad cow disease' being transferred to humans via the food chain.

Advice which was subsequently shown to be wrong.

(too young to remember if there were any similar circumstances surrounding the use of thalidomide)

None of that helps in persuading people that we can trust the official line about MMR, I'm afraid.

That said, I also remember the scare-mongering reporting about the young girl who died after getting the HPV jab a year or so ago. It turned out that the poor lass had a medical condition which killed her, and it had nothing to do with the jab.

I wonder how many people remember the 'Girl dies after jab' headlines, as opposed to those who remember the more several pages in reports that "Girl died of natual causes"...?

verysillyguy06

alm721 wrote: »

My son hasn't been vacinated. I don't believe that mmr causes autism but I do believe that in some immue compromised individuals it may be one of a multiple of things that for whatever reason 'flicks the switch' as it were.

My son does have many issues with some signs of asd (we are waiting for assessment) along with other problems. Obviously these were not 'caused by' the mmr as he hasn't had it, but I strongly felt (and still feel) that having it may make him worse.

There is autism in the family and there are auto immue disorders on both sides of his family. I really feel there are just too many variables involved to risk it. (Incidently both my health visitor and GP advised me against mmr given the situation).

I think this debate will never end as peoples perspectives will always vary. To all the people posting on here saying 'I have autism', the reality is that there is a spectrum (as you know), and the fact that you are on here posting suggests that you lead mostly normal lives. Sadly not all people with asd function this well.

I have a 24 year old brother who is severly autistic, is currently living in a residential setting and will never be independant. Never! He soils himself mostly daily and is unable to lead anything near a 'normal' live. Would I rather he be deaf? With all my heart yes!

I have little doubt that there is probably a genetic pre-disposition to asd, but I believe that there may be many factors that somehow can trigger asd type characteristcs of which mmr may well be one in certain individuals.

I do believe that mmr is safe for the vast majority of children, but I also think that for a significant minority it may well contribute to the development of asd. However, I cannot be certain indeed as no-one else can be. For all Wakefields research may have been flawed (and it was!) there equally is no research (nor will there ever be) that can absolutly catagorically state that mmr does not cause or contribute to autism, only reasearch which says no link has yet been found, the two are not the same thing!

:T:T:T

I could not have said it better.

After having worked all my life with severely disabled children, the 'on' button rings a ring of truth.

I also believe that it starts the onset but am fairly certain it does not cause it

poet123

Nicki wrote: »

Which is why my post referred to the importance for those people with compromised immune systems for the rest of us to be responsible enough to vaccinate and allow them to benefit from herd immunity principles.

Added to which there have been cases reported in the media in recent years of apparently previously healthy children dying of measles. You may be right that they had undiagnosed health issues which contributed to that, but nonetheless the cause of death was still measles and not the other condition, which does tend to suggest had they been vaccinated they might well still be alive.

Do you have a link to those deaths?