Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

lovesfarmbpha

albyota wrote: »

from the article........"A Plus Dane spokesman said: “We have decided to bite the bullet and completely replace the boilers with a model that has been proved to work in an everyday environment, is modern and eco-efficient".

I wonder what models they were replaced with...??

They replaced them with standard gas boilers....the flats were code level 4 builds highly insulated with amazing u values...

We are at the end really as all options have been explored and its now common knowledge that unless your hooked up to a green source of power or your running these NIBE systems with other power sources aswell then they do not work as stand alone bit of kit....shame really all that tax money went to waste when so much good could have come out of it.....NIBE estimate 15,000 kits went in....at an average price of £5k......what a waste of tax money and so damaging to the environment.....a huge mess.... fuelled by greed...sound familiar.....

grahamc2003

lovesfarmbpha wrote: »

They replaced them with standard gas boilers....the flats were code level 4 builds highly insulated with amazing u values...

We are at the end really as all options have been explored and its now common knowledge that unless your hooked up to a green source of power or your running these NIBE systems with other power sources aswell then they do not work as stand alone bit of kit....shame really all that tax money went to waste when so much good could have come out of it.....NIBE estimate 15,000 kits went in....at an average price of £5k......what a waste of tax money and so damaging to the environment.....a huge mess.... fuelled by greed...sound familiar.....

While I agree 100% that often so called 'environmental' measures aimed at saving the planet end up as a complete and utter waste of space, resources, taxpayer's cash etc etc (mainly due as you previously pointed out to engineering expertise being simply non existent at any stage of the process), I'm still interested in this particular case (which I currently know next to nothing about).

You state that studies have been done which prove this specific heatpump model simply doesn't work (at least I think that's what you have implied) - do you have a link to any of those studies? (I know you posted a link to a local rag article but to me that simply throws up very many more questions in my mind, and certainly doesn't state the HPs don't work, and in any case is of little or no evidential value).

John_Pierpoint

That video clip was pretty convincing showing the heat pump heating the garden:eek:

At least night storage heaters don't do that.

grahamc2003

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

That video clip was pretty convincing showing the heat pump heating the garden:eek:

At least night storage heaters don't do that.

But most other forms of heating do.

Certainly, if they ripped out the HP and replaced it with a gas boiler, a thermometer on the exhaust would show quite a high temperature. Ditto a stove, open fire, oil boiler. So that video in itself doesn't prove much (although I found it very surprising) since many other efficient heating systems exhibit the same effect. As I said before, if it is like that all the time, then something is wrong, but it's possible that there may be an operating regime where a warm exhaust is expected for a certain amount of time. (I'm not saying there is, but without knowing in detail the design of the HP, no one can say there isn't - that's why I said I'd like to see Nibe's comment on the video). Do Nibe reps ever write on this forum?

I think the key to finding out what's going on with these things is one of the technical reports which I hope I can get my hands on.

lovesfarmbpha

grahamc2003 wrote: »

But most other forms of heating do.

Certainly, if they ripped out the HP and replaced it with a gas boiler, a thermometer on the exhaust would show quite a high temperature. Ditto a stove, open fire, oil boiler. So that video in itself doesn't prove much (although I found it very surprising) since many other efficient heating systems exhibit the same effect. As I said before, if it is like that all the time, then something is wrong, but it's possible that there may be an operating regime where a warm exhaust is expected for a certain amount of time. (I'm not saying there is, but without knowing in detail the design of the HP, no one can say there isn't - that's why I said I'd like to see Nibe's comment on the video). Do Nibe reps ever write on this forum?

I think the key to finding out what's going on with these things is one of the technical reports which I hope I can get my hands on.

We fully understand your interest however it was heat pump engineers that ran very specific tests and reports that have concluded that the systems needed to be pulled out of the Runcorn area..Most of these independent reports that have said that the systems are not useful as standalone kits are immediately stamped by NIBE as commercially sensitive via a legal action...so getting hold of a report is tricky..
We appreciate that from where your standing your not fully aware of the whole picture but we can assure you most the ground work is now finished by many UK experts, including the research from the DECC and it is due to come to a conclusion very soon .
So We appreciate your requirement for more info but trust us when we say you have missed the boat on this one...however if you want one of these systems for your house we are sure there will be plenty for you on ebay soon...the last two on there one did not sell and the other went for £30. The other 67 went in the skip.......
The people who are important to the process know the results if you are one of these people then you will know the result.

On exhaust air from gas boilers ...well sorry but that clearly shows a limited knowledge of both products...hope you don't take that as rude.

John_Pierpoint

Think about it Graham, the only way the heat pump can be "better" than a night storage heater is if it is cooling the garden - the only place that the full price day time electricity can get extra heat from is the garden.
QED.

grahamc2003

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Think about it Graham, the only way the heat pump can be "better" than a night storage heater is if it is cooling the garden - the only place that the full price day time electricity can get extra heat from is the garden.
QED.

Hi John, it doesn't take much thinking about that that is the case. And if this Nibe HP was heating the outside world 24/7 that would be the case here. However, as I said before, there may be a transient where for a certain amount of time warm air is being exhausted, whereas the rest of the time cold air is. Obviously, the unit has to expel (much) more cold air than warm air overall to work at all. So you can't conclude from the video that anything is wrong (it may be, it may not be, it's impossible to say) - that's why I said I'd like to hear Nibes view on that situation. Jumping to a conclusion when it's not jumpable to isn't really the way forward imv

grahamc2003

lovesfarmbpha wrote: »

On exhaust air from gas boilers ...well sorry but that clearly shows a limited knowledge of both products...hope you don't take that as rude.

Well, it is pretty rude, but also pretty typical.

I said
.....with a gas boiler, a thermometer on the exhaust would show quite a high temperature.

Are you saying the temperature of the exhaust gas from a gas boiler isn't hot? At least that incorrect view is consistent with many of your misconceptions - e.g. that the Nibe doesn't have heat exchangers(!), and your inability to know the difference between energy and power and your random use of incorrect units of both.

I notice you previously posted some months ago about an expert engineering report on the system, and when one of the conclusions didn't meet with your views, the expert became 'a so called 'expert'' whenever you referred to him or her! So your abuse of professional engineers, and probably all other professionals I expect, seems widespread, even when they initially set out to help with peoples' difficulties with these systems. I note this saga started about 18 months ago (and I have occasionally posted on this thread from about that time) - ever wondered why you don't seem to be making much progress in finding a solution?

lovesfarmbpha wrote: »

Most of these independent reports that have said that the systems are not useful as standalone kits are immediately stamped by NIBE as commercially

Nonsense. If you commission an professional engineers report, there's nothing Nibe can do to stop you publishing it, however critical it may be. Note I say 'a professional engineers report' which will be factual and not libelous, whereas if for example you wrote a report, I expect it would be libelous and Nibe would have the right to stop its publication. Anyhow, you previously said there were many reports - yet you can't or won't produce even one of them.

There are many other misconceptions I (and incidentally any other professional engineer) could pick up on, but I'll leave it there, and wish you luck with solving your problem.

albyota

Hi Clifford, for a start, you should go back and delete your website from your post before the MSE police turn up.......:eek:

The reason Air to Air is not being discussed is that they do not qualify for any RHPP or RHI, as by default....they also cool....not very good for the environment it seems, I think Mitsubishi are currently working on a heat only variant, but air is much more difficult to meter, unless you know better.....

Edit.....Ooops....looks like the MSE Police took him out.....:eek:

jamieleebridge

Hi,

I moved into a my new 2 bedroom apartment on the 2nd April, since moving in we have already used 700kwph. Our Nibe is currently set to 24hr water heating? The engineer told us to use this setting? But im wondering whether this is right? Looking elsewhere were using double what we expect to be using in electricity.