Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

lovesfarmbpha

Hi ...when the heat pump on these models no longer runs ,as in compress the heat found in the air to use to heat the direct hot water or the heating, the fans continue to run ,as in it simply sucks in your hot air and blows it out the exhaust to atmosphere (out your house) without actually using it in any way shape or form...not forgetting that this sucking up of heat creates a negative pressure within the house which draws in the cold air from outside...

lovesfarmbpha

londonsouth wrote: »

NIBE 205 F does not blow the outside air in. There are two openings in the walls that simply let the air in. The cover on it is 5 cm away from the edge of the pipe that is open and connect the outside world with the living room. It just blows. Unbearable. I have put the sliding cover to help a little bit but not to entirely block it. At the end had to sellotape a plastic sheet over it as it does not help much. I have just bought a Black and Decker Thermal Leak Detector. The temperature of the cover is still 6C lower that the room and the wind still blows around the edges. The result is obvious. Loss of heat

Question:

I feel I will never get any warmth until I completely close these. What would be the negative effect of me entirely blocking these openings if any?

Your right in a way but also wrong ...yes there is no fan in the vents in your walls but because the sucking vents in your cieling are sucking up your heat this creates a negative pressure within side your home and basically sucks in the outside air from the vents you have on the walls....if your house is not sealed it will suck in outside air from any hole larger than that of the purpose wall holes/vents.....if you look on the facebook page you will see the damage that can cause when a house was not sealed correctly and instead of getting the outside air from the vents it took it from under the kitchen sink....from the cavity wall air....mmmm nice and damp

lovesfarmbpha

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Hi - I notice in this response was the quote of my previous post, but I'm having difficulty seeing which points of mine you are replying to, and also I can't really work out whether you are agreeing with me or disagreeing. Maybe I'm simply not reading it correctly. I'm interested in your reply to my thoughts (whether you agree or disagree with them), so (if you can be bothered), could you take one point or sentence at a time and give your thoughts on those specific points?

One point I can reply to is this

<i>Not only that once the system has finally done its thing it continues to throw the hot air out with no other use than to ventilate the home. </i>

which is a critical issue. The hot air isn't simply thrown out in these exhaust heat pumps - the warm exhaust air is used as the heat source for the whole system (in steady state) and has (some of) its heat removed before finally being exhausted out the house (as I think you implied earlier in your post, which is why I find the quote a bit puzzling)

The facts are that the system when not in " compressor mode/heat pump in use" the fans dont stop and simply just suck up your heat and throw it out of the house ....the video jason has done clearly shows this.......there is no heat exchanger units in this system

lovesfarmbpha

lovesfarmbpha wrote: »

The facts are that the system when not in " compressor mode/heat pump in use" the fans dont stop and simply just suck up your heat and throw it out of the house ....the video jason has done clearly shows this.......there is no heat exchanger units in this system

This is simply to meet building regs....for constant mechanical ventilation ... probably also the key down fall of the units...they have tried to be all things to have a niche market..." hey look we have a silver bullet chaps!.....opps was that your foot?"

lovesfarmbpha

we are happy for anyone to visit to discuss ... all installs have been commissioned 4 times including by NIBE...

londonsouth

If you know so much cant anybody answer a simple question to a guy who has just realised what trouble he has got himself into by buying a new build property with this heating system:

NIBE 205 F does not blow the outside air in. There are two openings in the walls that simply let the air in. The cover on it is 5 cm away from the edge of the pipe that is open and connect the outside world with the living room. It just blows. Unbearable. I have put the sliding cover to help a little bit but not to entirely block it. At the end had to sellotape a plastic sheet over it as it does not help much. I have just bought a Black and Decker Thermal Leak Detector. The temperature of the cover is still 6C lower that the room and the wind still blows around the edges. The result is obvious. Loss of heat
Hey guys , I am pleased you know so much, cant somebody answer a simple question below to a guy who has just realised what trouble he got himself into by buying a new build place with this heating system.


Question:

I feel I will never get any warmth until I completely close these. What would be the negative effect of me entirely blocking these openings if any?

lovesfarmbpha

londonsouth wrote: »

If you know so much cant anybody answer a simple question to a guy who has just realised what trouble he has got himself into by buying a new build property with this heating system:

NIBE 205 F does not blow the outside air in. There are two openings in the walls that simply let the air in. The cover on it is 5 cm away from the edge of the pipe that is open and connect the outside world with the living room. It just blows. Unbearable. I have put the sliding cover to help a little bit but not to entirely block it. At the end had to sellotape a plastic sheet over it as it does not help much. I have just bought a Black and Decker Thermal Leak Detector. The temperature of the cover is still 6C lower that the room and the wind still blows around the edges. The result is obvious. Loss of heat
Hey guys , I am pleased you know so much, cant somebody answer a simple question below to a guy who has just realised what trouble he got himself into by buying a new build place with this heating system.


Question:

I feel I will never get any warmth until I completely close these. What would be the negative effect of me entirely blocking these openings if any?

Basically if you block the vents then you will get no ventilation into your home....normally homes have a fan in the bathroom and one in the kitchen to remove moisture when you use those areas...what you have is constant ventilation so if you block the holes then you may experience high levels of humidity...condensation on windows leading to mould etc...
what you could do to negate a mouldy home is to open the windows when you have a shower etc and when you cook..
If its just you in the home then some simple tips n tricks are to...
1st buy an energy consumption monitor.
Try switching off the boiler at night for example and switching it back on when you wake and go to work,if its just you then the hotwater will remain good in your system for the morning shower and because the fan is not running the cols air will not come into your home at the suction rate of 110m3 an hour..
Or switching it off during the day.
Check how much power it uses during theses tests and use the most suitable.
Buy a small fan heater and whilst the NIBE is off run that to get soem instant heat ...if your home is built to a good standard (code level3 ) then it will not need much heat to keep it warm..
That last statement is usually where a heat pump sales man would jump in ....but before they do....with your NIBE off and holes in the wall blocked the heat you create from your fan heater will last a very long time......if you switch your nibe fans on and open the vents then the heat
from your heater will be pointless just the same as the NIBE....
hope that helps....for now:)......
snag it with the NHBC.....thats what we have done...we are waiting a response from our HA and if its not what we want we will be on to the NHBC...so will help you through this.....

grahamc2003

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

It takes a great act of faith on the part of a tenant to watch the meter whizzing round (or the little red light flashing for each watt) in the hope that the "pump" bit of the heater will cut in and start providing heat comparable to that provided by a modern gas boiler.
Everything they have ever learned, since their dad accused then of leaving the light on overnight, goes against taking the chance that keeping the house continually hot is cheaper than letting it cool down overnight and when away working during the day time.
I would expect the landlord to put his money where his mouth is and pick a model tenant to demonstrate for a month at the landlord's expense in say December. The incentive could be that if the tenant could out-perform a similar neighbour on say modern night storage radiators - then they would get free electricity for the rest of the winter.
It is time for these landlords to put up or shut up.

Hi John - I agree with that - especially the implication that the operation of heatpumps (and especially exhaust types) is often counter-intuitive. While I have sympathy for any users with high electricity bills and little heating, I'm also reading other posts and rapidly deveoping sympathy for any engineers tasked to solve this problem when (or if) they try to explain the counter-intuitive operation. While blocking the vents (or any other actions not according to the operating procedure) may appear a good idea on the surface, it's not a great idea for the heat pump system itself. Likewise, I expect the operating procudures possibly say keep the thing 'on' all the time, and if people are turning it on and off several times per week, then obviously an engineer would identify the turning on and off as the first issue to be resolved, even before he could start to investigate any other system problems.

I agree also that the HAs should set up some sort of controlled experiment in one of their houses. Simply get Nibe to check the system and certify it as working correctly, run the system exactly according to the operating manual for a couple of months, and see whether the room temperature reached the correct levels, and whether the electricity used is as expected and not too high. Simples.

If the system doesn't perform as per the specs, then ... well there are then various options, but ultimately if they are shown not to perform and can't be made to perform for some reason, then it's clear they should be replaced with system which can. If the systems perform as per specs, then it may simply be down to incorrect operation. (Btw, not pointing the finger here, just stating facts and options as I see them).

It would be interesting to know whether anyone in the HAs is happy with the system, or whether every user at every installation is having major problems.

lovesfarmbpha

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Hi John - I agree with that - especially the implication that the operation of heatpumps (and especially exhaust types) is often counter-intuitive. While I have sympathy for any users with high electricity bills and little heating, I'm also reading other posts and rapidly deveoping sympathy for any engineers tasked to solve this problem when (or if) they try to explain the counter-intuitive operation. While blocking the vents (or any other actions not according to the operating procedure) may appear a good idea on the surface, it's not a great idea for the heat pump system itself. Likewise, I expect the operating procudures possibly say keep the thing 'on' all the time, and if people are turning it on and off several times per week, then obviously an engineer would identify the turning on and off as the first issue to be resolved, even before he could start to investigate any other system problems.

I agree also that the HAs should set up some sort of controlled experiment in one of their houses. Simply get Nibe to check the system and certify it as working correctly, run the system exactly according to the operating manual for a couple of months, and see whether the room temperature reached the correct levels, and whether the electricity used is as expected and not too high. Simples.

If the system doesn't perform as per the specs, then ... well there are then various options, but ultimately if they are shown not to perform and can't be made to perform for some reason, then it's clear they should be replaced with system which can. If the systems perform as per specs, then it may simply be down to incorrect operation. (Btw, not pointing the finger here, just stating facts and options as I see them).

It would be interesting to know whether anyone in the HAs is happy with the system, or whether every user at every installation is having major problems.

Graham ...that test has been done already and the result.
http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.co.uk/runcorn-widnes-news/runcorn-widnes-local-news/2012/03/15/green-heaters-torn-out-of-runcorn-homes-over-145-000-eco-blunder-55368-30533228/

albyota

lovesfarmbpha wrote: »

Graham ...that test has been done already and the result.
http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.co.uk/runcorn-widnes-news/runcorn-widnes-local-news/2012/03/15/green-heaters-torn-out-of-runcorn-homes-over-145-000-eco-blunder-55368-30533228/

from the article........"A Plus Dane spokesman said: “We have decided to bite the bullet and completely replace the boilers with a model that has been proved to work in an everyday environment, is modern and eco-efficient".

I wonder what models they were replaced with...??