Nibe Fighter 360p ashp costing me loads to run

lovesgshp

Watched the program today on Iplayer, what a bad selling advertisement it was for that couple and heat pumps. The claim for up to 75% saving from a ASHP is well OTT, especialy for a mains gas installation. Up to 60% for LPG or oil possibly, or up to 70% with a GSHP.
No analysis of the thermal load of the property, or anything to specify the pump size, just a finger in the air. It's a wonder that Danfoss took over the company, but at least they admitted the problem and paid the guy back, despite it being a problem before they took over the original installer.
Would not recommend anyone with mains gas to change to ASHP or GSHP without a great deal of research and a full thermal load analysis.
This should probably be in the ASHP posting, but just replied in here.
Good program though and thanks JP for the link

1plus1equal3

i have got a nibe fighter 2005, in my new build housing association house. The temprature reaches nearly 30 degrees in my living room , and far lower then that in the hallway, during the winter months. i dont know any thing about these systems,im not technical minded, but the thermostat has been disabled, and i run the temprature off of the curve switch. After complaining constantly that my hallway, stairs . landing, and kitchen are too cold, and my living room too hot, i have been told i must keep all doors in the house, open at all times, to allow the heat to circulate.Im not happy with this, and feel i should of been told this , when i moved in 20 months ago, as im a door shutter , and dont want them open all the time.My house is a 2 bedroom property, and i get my electric supply from british gas, they have told me that my combined usage , if i was on gas would be around 500 pounds a year, my bill for my eco system for the year was over 800 pounds.we have gas mains running along the street outside, and i will never understand why my housing association chose to put these systems in, we have had so many people out , the to try and make them run correctly, but i dread winter, and the constant problems , and expense, to still be cold in the majority of my house,the bedrooms with their radiators are lovely and warm, but downstairs , underfloor heating seems to be so tempramental.

Cardew

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

It is a trickle technology that cannot be allowed to "set back" more than a few degrees at night nor should it be allowed to "cycle" (ie turn on and off when the temperature falls or rises a degree or two.

Heat pumps become less efficient as the heat gradient, that has to be overcome, rises. IE when is is very cold outside and the inside of a poorly insulated house needs to be at a higher temperature inside to maintain comfort levels; this is just the time that the pump becomes less efficient, especially as an air source heat pump has become an ice maker. (and the direct full price electric heating gets turned on to help melt the ice).

You illustrate something I have been 'banging on about' for a long while!

Even when manufacturers post accurate data about the COP of their pumps, there are two major issues that need to be taken into account.

Firstly the defrost cycles which can 'kill' the COP of the ASHP system.

Secondly when making running cost comparisons with any other heating system, the fact that the ASHP has to be running far longer(and thus wasting heat) is never considered.

With gas or oil CH, the water temperature in the radiators can be over 80C(82C on mine).

Water at that temperature warms the house very quickly. Typically the heating in my house comes on 20 minutes before we get out of bed or return to the house after work. It doesn't matter how cool the house gets while we are out, or in bed.

So we are not consuming oil/gas(the same would apply to conventional electricity heating) when heating is not needed.

Not so an ASHP as the house needs to be maintained close(set back a couple of degrees) to the required temperature all the time beacause of the inability to produce sufficient heat.

wiqas

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Is it a two story terraced house of recent construction?

What dates did the bill cover?

Correct. it is a 2 storey flat of a recent construction. i live on the top floor.

Covers from November- March 2011.

Any idea what will be the best tarriff for electricity? I'm on standard tarriff with Scottish Power.

John_Pierpoint

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/you-switch-gas-electricity

If you can agree to a monthly direct debit and a "paperless" billing system (ie you read your meter and their bills appear on the internet) then that usually works out the cheapest.
I switched the first time about 5 years ago and have had to switch again every 12 - 18 months (or you get stuck back onto the standard tariff again). But you do need to understand what you are doing as often the electricity company don't know what they are doing.
My wife and I have retired recently, so our consumption has gone up, we have had suggestions for a Direct Debit of between £50 and £150 per month.
At the moment the electricity company computer is insisting on a reduction to £45 per month, which is far too low.

I am wondering is they are gaming the system, as you can be stopped from switching if you are in debt to your supplier.

John_Pierpoint

ra200 wrote: »

The reason the house has a heat pump is the house had to be build to code level 3 even though we have mains gas,

Throughout the project Southdale has focused on what the end-user wants – a traditional family home with broad appeal. The Code level three property, built using timber frame, illustrates this normality perfectly. “A high-efficiency boiler and a Zenex GasSaver were really all that was needed in addition to the well-insulated envelope to meet level three,”

http://www.greenbuildnews.co.uk/record-details/article/Cracking-the-Code/188

[I am convinced that 99% of the population has no idea of the restrictions being placed on our life styles by the politicians in our name - in fact I'm convinced that 99% of the politicians have no idea of the practical outcome of the new legislation they are introducing]

lovesfarmbpha

we have a Nibe 360p...loves farm estate...most households are paying £400 a quarter regardless of size of house or flat on this estate!!!!!
Our experience is that the boiler needs to be installed properly...we have got condenation build up due to a lack of fresh air vents. Our due points are high ,we spoke to Nibe in sweden and they agreed ...also check the ducting to see if in the loft it has good insulation...minimum 2.5cm ,,that is the ducting not the loft.....I am doing a survey across the estate (100 houses) and so far all have a problem with bills and fitting of boiler and its noise....the system should work but it has to be installed properly as it is a fine balancing act between intake of air and placement of ducts and vents etc....to many fresh air vents and the house is cold ...extract points placed in bad places means not good ventilation ( condensation) un insulated ducting in loft means in winter your losing the hot air as it passes through the loft which in turn sends cold air to the boiler which makes it work harder thus more power neeeded....HIGH BILLS!!!

ra200

We give up now we do have the solar pv now but that ain’t going to help in the winter much, The noise of our nibe is bad so we have no choice to turn it off still at the mains as much as possible and Melin homes has still failed to fix the faults of the noise of it also it has over 12 & 5 ½ months now and Melin has still not resolved all the issues of cost, low heat upstiars in winter, noise of nibe, Melin homes cannot be bothered to get back to me regarding fixing the noise of the nibe I spoke to someone in their repairs team over a week ago and got fobbed of with the usual we call you back to confirm a date when the contractors we call on you,


So we give up Melin homes cannot even be bothered to telephone me back to arrange for the house snags like the paint work and plastering and cracks to be fixed and they cannot be arsed to come and fix the doors that do not close properly and the floor that is coming up so what hope do we have in fixing the heating system it has been 1 year and 5 months and they have not fixed the house snags,

As I have staid before avoid a Melin homes / Greenhill construction properly as they do not care they have bad customer service and their staff threaten their tenants and when you complain about it the make you out to be lying and they also accuse you of breaking something if they cannot get it to work we also had to BAN certain members of Melin / Greenhill staff from coming to the property due to their bad behaviour this shows had badly run a organisation Melin homes are and we have never had a apology from them ,


Also we have a lot of anti-social behaviour problems we have had police raids on the estate about 2 months ago and another police raid about a week ago on the estate again and we are supposed to bring up children with this on our door step all the time we have asked to be re housed and they have not done it as they do not care we have been told if we want to be re housed to sort it out our self’s ,

lovesfarmbpha

Hi.
It seem that its all down to the installation of the product.
We are in St Neots in housing association homes from BPHA homes built by KIER group.
We are considering reporting NIBE to the office of fair trading as we feel that the systems cannot deliver savings.
Another "expert" engineer visited today and in his report claims our £105 per month fuel bills( thats for summer time) are average.As I said in a polite reply to his report...."hold on arent these systems designed to save energy,surely I should be seeing a saving not an average."
The heat load of your house is very important....in sweden the heat load is 2kw the averagge new build in the uk is 7kw ..
These heat pumps are no good for the UK market as we have some bad builders...put it this way in sweden you can throw a house in a swimming pool and it wont leak!
The only reason these systems are put into new builds is it ticks a lot of green boxes in one....once again builder cutting corners...
remeber the thick kids at school went on a YTS course to be a builder...well guess what they are still thick.

ra200

Update,
Melin Homes sent another company out this morning called Micaul Solar and what a waste of a morning everything is still the same the energy consumption of the Nibe is still the same and the noise of the system is the same they did not fix the problem of the noise at all it is still the same they did not fix the faults that I reported to them 7 months ago it is beyond a joke now,

Also as we have low heat upstairs during the winter they also took room temperatures which was a bit pointless as it is 23/6/11 summer time and the heating has not been on since yesterday:wall:


Now we got to go though the route of the environmental heath and to the housing ombudsman as it looks like they will not fixed the reported faults and high noise level of the nibe I am not happy at all about the situation at all:mad:,