HELP - Neighbour just bumped into our car, bumper broken

Tigsteroonie

confusedmummy wrote: »

4) We do not have courtesy car with our insurance and we need to have a car as we have a very young baby and need to have access to transport if we need to take the baby to hospital in an emergency.

OP, can I suggest that if this bothers you, then you need to review your car insurance purchase and get cover that *does* include a courtesy car.

PsiDOC

darich wrote: »

Re read the bold highlighted part.....any road (in Scotland it's any "way") the public has access to.

If I can walk through the residents car park without climbing a fence then it's public...since I have access to it.

You're obviously not for believing me - your choice.

No not choice. FACT. Private land is private land that's it full stop end of story. Even in the Bonnie land of haggis eating it's is niether here nor there - bear in mind I have been off road trialing on private land in Scotland, Drumclog to be precise and oddly enough there was and still is no gate on the entrance to the site. Does that make it a public place? I think not. Private land IS private land.
A resident's car park is exactly that.... RESIDENT'S car park. Not a public one and if you were in there without invitation you could be liable to prosecution for trespass

Yorkie1

PsiDOC you are not quite correct I'm afraid, and darich is correct.

The distinction is not who owns the land, but whether the public in fact have access across / over / to the land at the time in question.

Private land can be covered by the RTA requirements if the public has access. Pub car parks are private land but the RTA applies during opening hours or, for example, if the public walk across it to get somewhere else. A residents' only car park with no further right of access to the public would not come within the RTA, but not for the reasons you outline. It is because the public do not have access, whether on payment or otherwise. In your example, the public did not in fact have access to the land at Drumclog as you describe it (the existence or otherwise of gates is likewise irrelevant) and therefore the RTA did not apply.

darich

PsiDOC wrote: »

No not choice. FACT. Private land is private land that's it full stop end of story. Even in the Bonnie land of haggis eating it's is niether here nor there - bear in mind I have been off road trialing on private land in Scotland, Drumclog to be precise and oddly enough there was and still is no gate on the entrance to the site. Does that make it a public place? I think not. Private land IS private land.
A resident's car park is exactly that.... RESIDENT'S car park. Not a public one and if you were in there without invitation you could be liable to prosecution for trespass

do the public have access to the residents car park?
Having access to something is completely different from having permission to use it. I could well use the car park to turn my car, but it's still private and I still need insurance on it.
Unless there's a big gate that gets locked and access is completely restricted to residents because of said gate, then it's public.
The public has access to my garden because there's not big lockable gate across the front of my lawn....someone can walk off the pavement and onto my lawn but it's still private land.

You fail go to grasp the definition of "public" as used in the RTA 1988.

"Public" is defined as "any other road to which the public has access," eg Sainsbury's car park - privately owned but very public.

patman99

I'm sure my neighbour would disagree. She is now retired, but spent many years serving on the bench. According to her, any vehicle parked on publicly accessable land (including residents parking areas, but excluding private driveways) must be insured, MOT'ed and either Taxed (or if on private land) SORN'ed.


Also, are visitors allowed to park in the car park?, if so, then the public DO have access.

PsiDOC

darich wrote: »

do the public have access to the residents car park?
Having access to something is completely different from having permission to use it. I could well use the car park to turn my car, but it's still private and I still need insurance on it.
Unless there's a big gate that gets locked and access is completely restricted to residents because of said gate, then it's public.
The public has access to my garden because there's not big lockable gate across the front of my lawn....someone can walk off the pavement and onto my lawn but it's still private land.

You fail go to grasp the definition of "public" as used in the RTA 1988.

"Public" is defined as "any other road to which the public has access," eg Sainsbury's car park - privately owned but very public.

No. You fail to grasp the the definition of "Private". The fact that someone can womble into private property does not put the onus on the land owner to make it secure and therefore make it insurance worthy. If you reverse you car onto private land to turn round you do so at your own risk.
I am sorry. I know where I stand with this. Believe me I have had to.
Private land is private land. End of story.

darich

PsiDOC wrote: »

No. You fail to grasp the the definition of "Private". The fact that someone can womble into private property does not put the onus on the land owner to make it secure and therefore make it insurance worthy

It's not the land that must be made insurance worthy - it's drivers on it who must have 3rd party liability. The land owner need do nothing at all.

PsiDOC wrote: »

If you reverse you car onto private land to turn round you do so at your own risk.

Of course it's at my risk....I'd have my insurance to cover the risk. It's also at my risk to drive down the road but I have insurance for that too.

PsiDOC wrote: »

I am sorry. I know where I stand with this. Believe me I have had to.
Private land is private land. End of story.

I know where you stand too - you've made it quite clear. You're wrong.
I know private land is private land - that's not debated - but if the public are using it, or have unrestricted access, then they must be insured to use a vehicle on it.

I've given you a definition of public from the RTA and how it can cover private land, but all you do is say I'm wrong without any backup.

maxheadroom

Darich is correct the RTA 1988 applies to land on which the public have access (regardless of who the land belongs to) although of course this may not apply in this case as we have no idea of acess arrangements

Read the third paragraph down explains definition of 'road' as applied

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069869

if the law is enforced or not however is another matter.

darich

Further evidence that insurance is required and RTA applies on private land
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069869
"It is important to note that references to ‘road’ therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks)

http://www.suffolk.police.uk/Useful+Information/Contact+Us/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Motor+Vehicles+On+Public+Rights+Of+Way.htm
question 4 "A public place might include moorlands, common land or Sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSSIs) and has been held by the courts to mean an area to which the public at large have access or that the public have express or implied permission to access from the Land Owner."

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences/#P327_35945
" A public place is a place to which the public, or part thereof, have access"

PsiDOC

So you're telling me that I have to make sure my JCB, or for that matter any vehicle I own on my private land has to insured because the fact I don't have a gate at the entrance? Sorry you're talking rubbish.
You can be as anal as you like about this with your Surrey police links. We both know the law is:
1: An a$$
2: Open to interpretation, or else we wouldn't need those thieves in suits known as solicitors.
I know where I stand. Private property is private property.