Any reviews or thoughts on these mattresses

Orrin

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

I don't know where you got a price of £393 from, because that is way out. Or it isn't from my site.

I meant the Milan that is the 1500 PS model and that's £393 in a king on your site.

Tim_Deegan wrote:

The problem with listing all of the components is that most people don't have a clue what they actually mean. So to list all the exact components would just confuse people, and would be trying to baffle people with science (which is what I was talking about in my previous post).

Even if people don't know exactly what the components mean, they could at least compare like for like and see exactly what they are getting for their money.

In your previous post you complained about manufacturers listing components without specifying the quantity, yet then you say that if they did give more information it would just confuse people.

I don't see how it could confuse people any more than the current situation where nobody provides detailed information and customers are left to guess which of thousands of different mattresses is the best for them by bouncing on it for a few minutes while listening to a salesman.

I expect the real reason manufacturers are reluctant to provide detailed specifications is because they want to make it harder for customers to shop around for a better deal.

Tim_Deegan

Orrin wrote: »

I meant the Milan that is the 1500 PS model and that's £393 in a king on your site.

Well that's a completely different mattress again, and is far better spec than the Highgrove.

Orrin wrote: »

Even if people don't know exactly what the components mean, they could at least compare like for like and see exactly what they are getting for their money.

No it doesn't, because people don't know what is a good or bad component, they don't know what is just a gimmick, and they don't know how quantities or weights relate to their mattress. So it just confuses people.

I agree with you that if the government made you list all the components, amounts, weights, and properties in a set format, then people could compare them, but at the moment unless you are in the indutry you wouldn't have a clue. The site where you saw the Highgrove is a perfect example. They go on about all the components in detail, but you didn't know that the reflex foam insulator pad is used in cheaper lower quality mattresses, because they make it sound like a good thing to have in your mattress.

Orrin wrote: »

In your previous post you complained about manufacturers listing components without specifying the quantity, yet then you say that if they did give more information it would just confuse people.

It wasn't a complaint, it was a statement to inform people that just because a mattress is supposed to have a certain component, it doesn't mean that it has a lot of it. In fact you have actually commented on this with latex Ikea mattresses that only contain 25% of latex in the latex layer.

Orrin wrote: »

I don't see how it could confuse people any more than the current situation where nobody provides detailed information and customers are left to guess which of thousands of different mattresses is the best for them by bouncing on it for a few minutes while listening to a salesman.

How many different terms have you heard for the same mattress components? To start with the springs, the continuous spring system is called Miracoil by Silentnight and Rest Assured, but is called Posturetech by Sealy (who are the same company). They are given other names also by other manyfacturers. Open coil springs are also called Bonnell springs (the proper name is Bonnell open coil springs), and also cage springs. And even pocket springs come under all different names, depending on who you buy them from. Some sellers even call reflex foam 'Reflex Memory Foam' to try and confuse the customers into thinking that a cheap and nasty reflex foam mattress is actually memory foam. Even the site where you found the Highgrove tried to say that reflex foam was comparable to memory foam.

Also Tempur will tell you that the optimum depth and density of memory foam is 3" of 85kg pem m3, but this is complete rubbish. 3" is too deep, and for most people 85kg density, although giving excellent support, has a very slow recovery rate, so most people don't like it. So as many retailer who sell tempur will say 'the more memory foam the better' or 'the higher density the better', then people will see the components of a memory foam mattress listed, and think that the one with 3" of 85kg is better than the one with 2" of 65kg, but it isn't.

Retailers will also tell you 'the more pocket springs the better' because they want you to spend more money on a mattress with more springs, but this simply isn't true. However people will compare the number of springs and think the one with more springs is better.

Most people also don't know the difference between full size steel pocket springs and reflex foam encapsulated pocket spring (that are cheaper, smaller, and far less supportive, whilst not allowing air to flow freely through them). But the site that you found the Highgrove mattress on actually sings their praises. So I presume that most of the pocket sprung mattresses they sell actually contain them.

Orrin wrote: »

I expect the real reason manufacturers are reluctant to provide detailed specifications is because they want to make it harder for customers to shop around for a better deal.

In some cases yes. You only have to look at the Dreams web site to see how little information they give. But I believe that you have to find the right balance, and then give an honest and detailed reply when asked for more details.

Orrin

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

Well that's a completely different mattress again, and is far better spec than the Highgrove.

That's the point though, neither site gives detailed information so it's impossible for customers to know which has a better spec.

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

No it doesn't, because people don't know what is a good or bad component, they don't know what is just a gimmick, and they don't know how quantities or weights relate to their mattress. So it just confuses people.

Even allowing for all of that (which I don't think is always true), it would still enable people to compare different mattresses with identical composition. We all know that the actual variation in mattress construction is far less than the vast numbers of different models available would indicate.

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

It wasn't a complaint, it was a statement to inform people that just because a mattress is supposed to have a certain component, it doesn't mean that it has a lot of it. In fact you have actually commented on this with latex Ikea mattresses that only contain 25% of latex in the latex layer.

But that's my point; I only know the composition of the latex because they list it in the specification of the mattress. There are plenty of places which talk about latex layers with no mention of thickness or composition and the customer is none the wiser.

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

How many different terms have you heard for the same mattress components? To start with the springs, the continuous spring system is called Miracoil by Silentnight and Rest Assured, but is called Posturetech by Sealy (who are the same company). They are given other names also by other manyfacturers. Open coil springs are also called Bonnell springs (the proper name is Bonnell open coil springs), and also cage springs. And even pocket springs come under all different names, depending on who you buy them from. Some sellers even call reflex foam 'Reflex Memory Foam' to try and confuse the customers into thinking that a cheap and nasty reflex foam mattress is actually memory foam. Even the site where you found the Highgrove tried to say that reflex foam was comparable to memory foam.

Also Tempur will tell you that the optimum depth and density of memory foam is 3" of 85kg pem m3, but this is complete rubbish. 3" is too deep, and for most people 85kg density, although giving excellent support, has a very slow recovery rate, so most people don't like it. So as many retailer who sell tempur will say 'the more memory foam the better' or 'the higher density the better', then people will see the components of a memory foam mattress listed, and think that the one with 3" of 85kg is better than the one with 2" of 65kg, but it isn't.

Retailers will also tell you 'the more pocket springs the better' because they want you to spend more money on a mattress with more springs, but this simply isn't true. However people will compare the number of springs and think the one with more springs is better.

Most people also don't know the difference between full size steel pocket springs and reflex foam encapsulated pocket spring (that are cheaper, smaller, and far less supportive, whilst not allowing air to flow freely through them). But the site that you found the Highgrove mattress on actually sings their praises. So I presume that most of the pocket sprung mattresses they sell actually contain them.

All of this is a separate issue really. It's not about who says what is best or how manufacturers and retailers use marketing speak to make their products sound better. It's about providing consumers with accurate specifications so they can compare similar products.

Tim_Deegan

Orrin wrote: »

That's the point though, neither site gives detailed information so it's impossible for customers to know which has a better spec.

Which is exactly why I posted on here to tell people the difference.

Orrin wrote: »

Even allowing for all of that (which I don't think is always true), it would still enable people to compare different mattresses with identical composition. We all know that the actual variation in mattress construction is far less than the vast numbers of different models available would indicate.

If you don't think that is true, then what can you tell me about mattress construction, and about what all the components actually do?

There are actually 1000's of different variations for mattresses. For example you could line up 50 medium to firm pocket sprung mattresses, all made by different manufacturers, and almost all of them would be different.

Orrin wrote: »

But that's my point; I only know the composition of the latex because they list it in the specification of the mattress. There are plenty of places which talk about latex layers with no mention of thickness or composition and the customer is none the wiser.

Yes I agree. But you said that even Ikea said that the mattress contained natural latex, because they twist the wording around to get away with it. If you actually feel Ikea latex it is nothing like natural latex.

Orrin wrote: »

All of this is a separate issue really. It's not about who says what is best or how manufacturers and retailers use marketing speak to make their products sound better. It's about providing consumers with accurate specifications so they can compare similar products.

It's not a separate issue. I was giving an example of how the consumer doesn't know the difference between different components, and what is good or bad. Also how when people don't know the details, they can be brainwashed into thinking that something is better because it has a higher number on the component list.

Orrin

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

I was giving an example of how the consumer doesn't know the difference between different components, and what is good or bad. Also how when people don't know the details, they can be brainwashed into thinking that something is better because it has a higher number on the component list.

But if retailers and manufacturers don't provide detailed specifications for their products then it doesn't matter if people understand the differences or not, does it?

I don't quite understand your position on this because in previous posts you've been critical of manufacturers using low quantities of premium materials to make their products appear more impressive than they are. Surely then providing customers with more detailed specifications would be a good thing, no?

Tim_Deegan

Orrin wrote: »

But if retailers and manufacturers don't provide detailed specifications for their products then it doesn't matter if people understand the differences or not, does it?

I don't quite understand your position on this because in previous posts you've been critical of manufacturers using low quantities of premium materials to make their products appear more impressive than they are. Surely then providing customers with more detailed specifications would be a good thing, no?

Yes it does matter that people understand before they are given quantities and components. There are so many gimmicks in the bed industry, that if people think they are getting loads of a component that sounds high tech, but is just a useless gimmick, then they won't know that they are being conned, if you see what I mean.

lagi

Looking for a pocket sprung mattress, but first going to add the recommended peg board across the slats. Rang the builders merchants and they sell it 8 x 4 which is probably slightly under that. Do i just cut the length off the top and place it in the middle with 3" either side or do i use the off cuts to fill the whole frame? Do i just lay it or should i fix it to the slats?

bertsilver

Orrin wrote: »

It looks like a nice mattress. For comparison I've seen this one for £345 which lacks the hand side stitching but has the same spring count and same fillings of polyester, cotton and wool. Obviously it's impossible to compare like for like without knowing the exact thickness, weight, quality etc of the fillings, but it's a similar spec for considerably less.

http://www.factory-beds-direct.co.uk/mattress-sho/king-size-mattresses/clarence-pocket-1500-kingsize/

Thing is the Burgess one is in my area, so I have tried it out, gave it a good look over, which I think you need to do before buying, I just dont fancy buying online just to save a few quid.

Orrin

bertsilver wrote: »

Thing is the Burgess one is in my area, so I have tried it out, gave it a good look over, which I think you need to do before buying, I just dont fancy buying online just to save a few quid.

In your shoes I'd probably get the Burgess one too, I was just posting that as an example of what's around with a similar specification.

Tim_Deegan

lagi wrote: »

Looking for a pocket sprung mattress, but first going to add the recommended peg board across the slats. Rang the builders merchants and they sell it 8 x 4 which is probably slightly under that. Do i just cut the length off the top and place it in the middle with 3" either side or do i use the off cuts to fill the whole frame? Do i just lay it or should i fix it to the slats?

Yes you can just cut the end off so that it fits lengthways. Don't worry about the 3" either side, as you wouldn't really sleep that close to the edge.