asda diesel freezing? compensation??

bigjl

What cars have you been using, as the consensus seems to be that Fords with Euro 4 engines seem unusually sensitive to fuel quality.

At the end of the day Esso is the same price as Tescos where I live so Esso it is, but then I never try to save money buying own brand biscuits etc, as they taste like crap.

Rossy.

Bigjl, without sounding like i want a row i just had a quick google search about your Mondeo.

Euro 4 has nothing to do with fuel quality at all

Do you know the actual difference between your euro 4 engine and a euro 3 engine ??

A DPF is fitted, your EGR valve is constructed slightly differently, and your CAT will be closer to the exhaust manifold than a euro 3 engine to clean the exhaust gasses quicker to meet euro 4 pollution levels. I got this from Wikipedia

fuel from whoever doesn't come into it in fairness.

clever_username

Rossy. wrote: »

I got this from Wikipedia

To be fair though I wouldn't get into the habit of saying 'I got this from Wikipedia' as if you're citing an unimpeachable source of information.

Some of the rubbish that people write on there since anyone can edit the articles is amazing sometimes!

Rossy.

clever_username wrote: »

To be fair though I wouldn't get into the habit of saying 'I got this from Wikipedia' as if you're citing an unimpeachable source of information.

Some of the rubbish that people write on there since anyone can edit the articles is amazing sometimes!

Oh i agree totally.

I also checked a ford forum who backed that info up so i'd say it's pretty accurate butt

Also the ford forum took 2 cars to a remap specialist, One euro 3 and one euro 4

When both maps were downloaded they were compared and found both engine versions run exactly the same maps. Ford don't tweak them at all

bigjl

Rossy. wrote: »

Bigjl, without sounding like i want a row i just had a quick google search about your Mondeo.

Euro 4 has nothing to do with fuel quality at all

Do you know the actual difference between your euro 4 engine and a euro 3 engine ??

i'll tell you

A DPF is fitted and your CAT will be closer to the exhaust manifold than a euro 3 engine to clean the exhaust gasses quicker to meet euro 4 pollution levels. I got this from Wikipedia

fuel from whoever doesn't come into it in fairness.

Your wrong when you talk about Euro 4 having a DPF, my Mondeo is a late 2005, fitted with a Euro 4 engine, and no DPF as they never fitted a DPF to the mk3 Mondeo. Another difference between the 130 Euro 3 and 130 Euro 4 is that you can't bypass the EGR without causing error messages. I am sure somebody told me one of the problems with the 2.2 tdci (155) was the fact they couldn't make it meet Euro 4 regs, but I have no definative information relating to that situation so that may well be hearsay.

Personally I would take anything from Wikipedia with a pinch of salt, one of the main reasons for a DPF is, alledgedly, in anticipation of Euro 5/6 etc.


I always amazes me that people are happy to disagree with somebody posting from personal experience when they are relying in sometimes inaccurate and sometimes totally untrue information from the internet.


The more efficent you make an engine then the more sensitive it will be to poor quality fuel and also contaminated fuel, hence why older diesels can pretty much run on anything, my old Xantia runaround would run fine on veg oil.

It ran better on a 60/40 mix of oil/diesel. But would run perfectly well on almost 100% veg oil, at least in the warmer months.


The Euro 4 engine meets different emissions regulations, nothing more, though interestingly a Zafira, Fiat or Saab CDTi which is fitted with a DPF will still pass the MOT emissions test with the DPF removed. As the name suggests they only stop particulates, which are then burnt off in a regen cycle which happens when extra diesel in injected into the engine to increase the temp in the DPF, and also has a habit of ending up in the sump especially if you repeatedly switch the engine off mid regen, this also happens in BMWs with a similar system though it was never an issue in cars like the Citreon C5 which had an additve called eloys fluid which was injected to clean out the DPF, as there was a DPF fitted to the higher spec HDi engines, the 2.2 I think. This fluid was very expensive and a certain amount was injected into the diesel tank every time you filled up, or to be more accurate when you opened the fuel flap, hence why they DPF could cause problems when owned by a £20 a time type of owner, as the eloys fluid would run out early, and some people used to ignore the warning on the dash.

bigjl

Rossy. wrote: »

Oh i agree totally.

I also checked a ford forum who backed that info up so i'd say it's pretty accurate butt

Also the ford forum took 2 cars to a remap specialist, One euro 3 and one euro 4

When both maps were downloaded they were compared and found both engine versions run exactly the same maps. Ford don't tweak them at all

I take it the fact that no MK3 Mondeo was fitted with a DPF is much of a problem then?


This was the info I found about Euro 3/4

Emission standards for passenger cars

Exhaust gases are far less toxic than they were years ago.


Emission standards for passenger cars and light commercial vehicles are summarised in the following tables. Since the Euro 2 stage, EU regulations introduce different emission limits for diesel and gasoline vehicles. Diesels have more stringent CO standards but are allowed higher NOx emissions. Gasoline-powered vehicles are exempted from particulate matter (PM) standards through to the Euro 4 stage, but vehicles with direct injection engines will be subject to a limit of 0.005 g/km for Euro 5 and Euro 6. A particulate number standard (P) or (PN) is part of Euro 5 and 6, but is not final. The standard is to be defined as soon as possible and at the latest upon entry into force of Euro 6.[15]
All dates listed in the tables refer to new type approvals. The EC Directives also specify a second date — one year later — which applies to first registration (entry into service) of existing, previously type-approved vehicle models.
European emission standards for passenger cars (Category M*), g/km


Since you can't bypass the EGR in a Euro 4 car without the ECU registering a fault then I would assume that the main difference between a Euro 3 130bhp Mondeo and a Euro 4 130 bhp Mondeo is in fact to do with the EGR system, which was a system introduced to reduce emissions, this may explain why the actual state of tune between Euro 3 and 4 is minimal, they both deliver similar power, though I believe that the Euro 4 engine is actually a couple of bhp down on the older Euro 3 engine, can't remember where I read that, I think it was in an article in Car Mechanics Mag.

nearlyrich

I have two diesel cars, one has been standing on the drive since mid June with just a couple of short runs in between, the fuel has been in since then and it probably came from Tesco as 99% of my fuel does, I needed to use it today as my other car is in the garage. It started no problem an runs like a dream we have had some very low temps overnight around here.

Rossy.

bigjl wrote: »

I take it the fact that no MK3 Mondeo was fitted with a DPF is much of a problem then?

taken from a ford forum

"From 06 onwards, a DPF was offered as an optional extra on the currrent mondeo. But as yet, I haven't seen of one fitted.

Peugeot have been fitting them for a while and the Peugeot/Ford engines as fitted to the Focus/C-Max have had them since 05. Since all diesels come from Peugeot now, then the DPF and all injection system etc is the same as Peugeot fit to their own cars"

That was a ford response by the way

i'm not disputing you may "think" you get better mpg using regular pump diesel, but unless you could replicate the same exact conditions every time you'll never know. So many variables involved than just driving the same route every day

bigjl

The only Mondeo I have seen with a dpf is a 2.0 MK4, the 1.8 mk4 didn't have one.

Peugeot and Citreon are irreleavnt to this discussion as is the Focus, neiher of which have a Euro 4 Ford engine.

I don't "think", I "actually" researched this before posting my opinion, not using Google or Wikipedia, I also do the same route every day, in fact the miles I drive remain the same all year round.

The first time it happened I thought it was my imagination, and cleaned the EGR and sensor near the air filter but it made no difference, I then refuelled at an Esso and the car was back to its old self within a few miles.

I will reiterate that i wouldn't have believed it would make a difference until I had my Mondeo, though anybody that reads Ford forums will also know that many people advocate putting decent diesel in a Mondeo, as the injection system in the TDCi is well known for having issues.

When you do 25-30k a year and your journeys stay pretty much the same all year round, and you also have a habit of running full to empty then refilling unless you have no cash and just do the occasional splash and dash you do get to see any differences in performance and economy.

To be honest I don't really care if you believe me or not, makes no difference to me, but what does annoy slightly is people disagreeing when they are relying on Google or Wikipedia for their information, rather than the actual experience of somebody that has done over 50k in a Mondeo over the last two years.

I know my Mondeo pretty well, when you put in Supermarket diesel it drives like the handbrake is stuck on.

Rossy.

Bigjl i'm not saying i dont believe you

to replicate the differences in diesel quality would be a mammoth task. Infact could only be done in a controlled laboratory.

Driving the same journey every day is not enough proof as like i said before. Ambient air temps affect massively the fuel consupmtion of a car. Your car is turbo diesel like mine, and as you know the cooler the air temp the denser the air = more fuel + more power = decreased mpg.

There has never been any real world concrete proof that supermarket fuel is inferior in any way shape or form. Also just because you think that your mondeo feels different it doesn't mean it's a ford thing.

Also the only reason i quoted the ford/peugeot/citroen thing is that from 06 onwards all diesel fords utilise peugeot/citroen diesel engines though your right that doesn't correspond to you as i think you have an older model? sorry if your's is newer.

It's horses for courses really. Others will say only the best when others like me will chuck any old crap in. To me diesel is diesel and if ford expect you to put super expensive all singing and dancing diesel in then they should look at how well they design their cars. A diesel car should run perfectly normal on any type of diesel that is sold in UK forecourts