Return of the Workhouse. It's now Official

Sir_Humphrey

So presumably the people who do this work right now are about to be made unemployed...

Shakethedisease

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Username not a bit of a give away?

Look, I hire people. We get people sent from the job centre. They are not interested in the jobs, and we have yet to take someone on who's been sent. We always take those on who have found it out themselves.

Why? Simple. You can tell who wants to work, and who doesn't.

It's not hard to find people to come to an interview. It's extremely hard to find someone who's going to work.

My outlook is obviously different to yours. But all you keep doing is comign up with problems, not real suggestions that can actually happen. Massive imvestment is an idea, but it can't happen right now.

We need solutions now.

No, I always thought Devon was your surname or something.

Glad to hear you can just 'tell' who wants to work and who doesn't. But sounds to me like you may have a little bit of a problem with those people the job centre send you.
But, where I am, job vacancies are massively over-subscribed with 100's of applications for just one. People will do anything, the problem is that there are SO many other people willing to do anything too..
So no, I have no idea why in your particular area in Devon there are so many people who ( you claim ) just don't WANT to work. It's not the same in my area.

And just because I keep keep coming 'up with problems' doesn't mean they don't exist. But one of my absolute main problems is attitudes of people like you. I'm sorry... who also have NO solutions... yet think this farce, and possibly wasting millions and millions of pounds setting it all up..dressed up as getting people into some sort of working 'habit' (for 4 weeks !!).. is going to make a blind bit of difference in getting people off the dole queues.

So presumably the people who do this work right now are about to be made unemployed...

Well there was some reporter on Sky today saying that a lot of 'cash strapped councils'.. will see this as a great opportunity for some free labour ? Who knows.

vaporate

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Username not a bit of a give away?

Look, I hire people. We get people sent from the job centre. They are not interested in the jobs, and we have yet to take someone on who's been sent. We always take those on who have found it out themselves.

Why? Simple. You can tell who wants to work, and who doesn't.

It's not hard to find people to come to an interview. It's extremely hard to find someone who's going to work.

My outlook is obviously different to yours. But all you keep doing is comign up with problems, not real suggestions that can actually happen. Massive imvestment is an idea, but it can't happen right now.

We need solutions now.

Forced labour isn't one of them.

If the gov 'tries it on' then they will have a crisis on their hands wth ppl rightfully revolting and they can blame themselves for their draconian methods.

vaporate

The posters FOR this proposed draconian policy, would you clean up crap off the streets to get your tax money back through JSA after working for many years and became unemployed by no fault of your own?

Don't lie now... I know it's hard when you are a serial compulsive liar lol

amcluesent

>would you clean up crap off the streets...Don't lie now...<

Nope, I reckon I could earn more trading on t'Bay.

Graham_Devon

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No, I always thought Devon was your surname or something.

Glad to hear you can just 'tell' who wants to work and who doesn't. But sounds to me like you may have a little bit of a problem with those people the job centre send you.
But, where I am, job vacancies are massively over-subscribed with 100's of applications for just one. People will do anything, the problem is that there are SO many other people willing to do anything too..
So no, I have no idea why in your particular area in Devon there are so many people who ( you claim ) just don't WANT to work. It's not the same in my area.

And just because I keep keep coming 'up with problems' doesn't mean they don't exist. But one of my absolute main problems is attitudes of people like you. I'm sorry... who also have NO solutions... yet think this farce, and possibly wasting millions and millions of pounds setting it all up..dressed up as getting people into some sort of working 'habit' (for 4 weeks !!).. is going to make a blind bit of difference in getting people off the dole queues.



Well there was some reporter on Sky today saying that a lot of 'cash strapped councils'.. will see this as a great opportunity for some free labour ? Who knows.

Alright, I can't be bothered with this attitude issue you appear to have.

You've already assumed so much about one poster and fallen foul, and here you are doing it again.

Graham_Devon

vaporate wrote: »

The posters FOR this proposed draconian policy, would you clean up crap off the streets to get your tax money back through JSA after working for many years and became unemployed by no fault of your own?

Don't lie now... I know it's hard when you are a serial compulsive liar lol

I've cleaned and disinfected, as well as shovelling literal !!!!!! out of bin cupboards for council blocks.(The ones with big cylinder shaped metal bins, before recycling)

Some people can't even be bothered to wrap up a soiled nappy, let alone get it into the bin.

Didn't do it to get tax money back. Did it to earn money.

Was nasty, did it about 6 months. Wasn't too bad when you got used to it, and you had a full protection suit on. But I tell you what, you were treated like the lowest of the absolute low. Spat at, pee'd on, literally, verbally abused, and in some cases (though not to myself) physically abused.

Did that at 18. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. However, someone needs to do it. Would turn into a festering pit if it wasn't done.

olly300

Graham_Devon wrote: »

6m is a long time. If you simply cannot get a job within 6m, any job, then theres something a miss.

There are lots of people who fall in categories that are simply bad prospects for an employer so will take long than 6 months to find any job including a menial job.

For example lots of older people have written on this forum how difficult it is for them to get any job. I've also met men over 55 who ended up being made to retire when they reached 60 because no-one would take them on for any job.

Then there are people with various disabilities. Employers have to make reasonable adjustments and with even government agencies f*** up over that what chance have private companies got?

Simply trying to force people in these categories into manual labour after 6 months on the dole isn't going to help them at all. Yes they want to work but giving them something without any long term prospects isn't going to help them.

You are far better trying to get them to volunteer a few hours a week - but organisations are finding they currently have too many volunteers.

vivatifosi

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Those that will be on this scheme with be a large mix of people like former architects, graduates, construction industry professionals, IT workers, financial services workers.. in fact any profession that has really suffered in this recession or is just about to due to the spending review. As well as the 'so-called' chavs and scroungers.

I'm from an industry that has been totally hit by the downturn (construction related). You have two choices, adapt or hang on in the hope of getting something. There is nothing whatsoever stopping IT workers, financial services workers etc moving to a different industry if they can't find jobs in their previous industry. Of course, it will pay less, but possibly more than you would get on benefits. I've had to do this, you have to be pragmatic in a downturn.

SingleSue

Unfortunately, there are a fair few who despite trying day in and day out to secure employment, that find themselves still in the position of trying 6 months after starting to claim.

Those who have a degree education who having failed to secure their job of choice, then trying for any job and being told they are over qualified (and the employers being scared of taking them on as they believe it is a stop gap job).

Those who have differing needs to others which scares employers, those who are seen as being too old, or even too young or living in an area which suffers from high unemployment.

The ones caught up in this will not just be the don't want to work people but also the ones who have worked for many years but have been made redundant and possibly because of one of the reasons above, have found it impossible to find any job.

What about those who have had their ESA removed but still suffer significant difficulties in the work place? Most of those would not be able to have a really physical work placement...what measures would the authorities bring in for those?

I know my limitations, one of those is the very things they are talking about...I cannot garden even in my leisure time, I cannot walk around for hours on end but I can work in an office seated or in employment where there is an option to sit (check out etc). I don't as yet class myself as disabled but an employer might (probably would in fact bearing in mind I am now reliant on crutches) and this would go against me in applying for employment.

My arguement though is that my brain works, I can type on a computer, I can handle pressure and time constraints just as well as when my body did play ball so my employability for an office job is just the same as it was before....I just need to allow extra time for getting from the car to the office that is all.

There would be many others in my position, able to work, wanting to work but finding employers not quite wanting to take the perceived risk....and hence, a fair few still being on unemployment benefits many months later.

As a way forward, errr...I have no ideas to be honest. Something certainly needs to be done to get those who really do not want to work, out working but care does need to be taken that it is targeted at the right people.

My usual answer is education but I am not so sure that would work in some cases either!