Return of the Workhouse. It's now Official

Shakethedisease

Just because I'm reasonably successful, don't think I'm of the Old School Tie who got it all handed to him on a plate. Far from it in fact.
As to 'too used to being secure', I lost everything, financially, 3 years ago and am in the process of working hard to get back to the position I'd like to be in. The first job I did in Sydney was canvassing shoppers for telephone numbers so that telesalesmen could call them.

Fair enough. However, I fail to see the logic in people trumpeting, crowing and gloating ( not you personally) ad finitum about further and further cuts and erosion to the only safety net they and their own loved ones will ever have... if they fell on hard times like you did yourself. I think it's a bit stupid to be honest.

And this DWP report that studies workfare schemes across the world indicates that the schemes have patchy and limited success in improving employment outcomes for the unemployed.

Had a read through, thanks for the link. Workfare schemes according to that have the worst outcomes of all in terms of getting people back into employment. Especially in a weak economy.

And one other thing I have an issue is that the constant use of 'chav' and 'workshy scrounger' words I see bandied about on these forums. DWP usually count those who've been unemployed for 6 months + as 'long term' ( though yet to be seen if the same will appy here )..

Those that will be on this scheme with be a large mix of people like former architects, graduates, construction industry professionals, IT workers, financial services workers.. in fact any profession that has really suffered in this recession or is just about to due to the spending review. As well as the 'so-called' chavs and scroungers.

It's a mistake to think that those out picking up litter, washing off graffiti and 'sprucing up' old people's gardens will all be wearing hoodies. A large percentage of them will have worked in respected professions for many years.. and will have no need of forcably learning ANY sort of work ethic, 'habits and routines' .. They just won't have been able to find a job in the current climate.

ceridwen

Jowo wrote: »

I really don't think the authorities can actually determine the won't-work types versus the-will-work-but- can't-find-a- job types. I don't think many job seekers get sanctioned for not applying for work - it's probably easier for them to apply and then just deliberately spoil the interview.

Plenty of people who have the skills to sabotage official push and pull activity to get them into employment can also wriggle out of these types of schemes. It's the less resourceful/more vulnerable types that can get clobbered.

If they want to bring in workfare, I think they can only do it for all, such as introducing an entry criteria to it such as claiming JSA for x months or x years instead of having a vague, subjective and unmeasurable trigger.

That would be one of my personal fears/reservations about the whole Scheme - ie that they might try even turning round to someone who had held down job/s for 20/30 odd years and go "You need some 'motivation' to do a job (you've been unemployed for 6 months or longer) - here you are = go on workfare" when clearly/provably people like that don't, or they wouldnt have held down job/s for so darn long otherwise. Hence there would HAVE to be more "subjective" measures...in order to try and apply this ONLY to people who are perfectly able to hold down a job, but just as provably "workshy". Why should the responsible ones - who have "played their part" for many years (much against their will in many cases....) suffer because of the !!!!less/workshy?

Loughton_Monkey

Anyone have any good and reliable references to what other European countries do?

My understanding is that actual benefits are far smaller, but I don't know what they do about 'compulsory' work.

vaporate

It's a joke more than anything.

No one will be forced to do jack all. It's criminal and insulting to the long term unemployed.

If it goes through, crime will just go up and it will be justified by snotty policies like this.

And don't give me this cobblers about getting lazy people into 'work'.

Its work given to community service. Not the innocent. Bring it on indeed. Not going to happen.

p.s As usual, sheeple go along with it thinking their tax money will be less lol More fool you.

vaporate

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Fair enough. However, I fail to see the logic in people trumpeting, crowing and gloating ( not you personally) ad finitum about further and further cuts and erosion to the only safety net they and their own loved ones will ever have... if they fell on hard times like you did yourself. I think it's a bit stupid to be honest.



Had a read through, thanks for the link. Workfare schemes according to that have the worst outcomes of all in terms of getting people back into employment. Especially in a weak economy.

And one other thing I have an issue is that the constant use of 'chav' and 'workshy scrounger' words I see bandied about on these forums. DWP usually count those who've been unemployed for 6 months + as 'long term' ( though yet to be seen if the same will appy here )..

Those that will be on this scheme with be a large mix of people like former architects, graduates, construction industry professionals, IT workers, financial services workers.. in fact any profession that has really suffered in this recession or is just about to due to the spending review. As well as the 'so-called' chavs and scroungers.

It's a mistake to think that those out picking up litter, washing off graffiti and 'sprucing up' old people's gardens will all be wearing hoodies. A large percentage of them will have worked in respected professions for many years.. and will have no need of forcably learning ANY sort of work ethic, 'habits and routines' .. They just won't have been able to find a job in the current climate.

My point exactly. All it will do is mock the unemployed, despite being highly qualified.

vaporate

:rotfl:

foreversummer wrote: »

That's not the way I see it. If anything it acknowledges the dedication and hard work of those who do manual work, day in day out, month in month out, year in year out, as important work that needs doing.

As long as the scheme is set up in such a way as to not impact anyone's current job I think it is a great idea. And let's face it, there is so much that needs cleaning, repairing and sprucing up in all our communities that never normally gets done.

Foreversummer

CRAP.

It's punishing the unemployed. Would you clean the streets like some peasant?

Up your jacksie.

roy62

As stupid as the poll tax.

hallmark

Excellent idea IMO.

No-one is forced to claim benefits. If you don't want the ignominy of actually having to do something to get them, don't claim them.

vaporate

Good, I shall stop paying council tax then...sorry bribe tax.

out_of_cash

any chance these greedy half witt politicians will start to get off their own backsides and create some jobs that matches the cost of living in the uk, there are only so many ware houses and food stacking jobs to go around.Its ok the doo gooders saying id work for pennies its no good earning shirt buttons if you have a mortgage kids to feed etc or rent to pay, it seems they are using unemployed people as a scape goat for the bankers and politians own !!!! ups.Not every person on jsa is a scrounger they would love to work but for a wage not a soup kitchen.

Lots of people have paid thousands in tax and ni into the system so its their turn due to some unfortunate circumstances to get some "benefits" back

what goes around comes around and when it does i hope the dreamers on here wont be expecting their friendly neighbourhood banker to bail them out or understand their situation.a bit like the politicians easy to batter the unemployed than the other self serving piggies.