Return of the Workhouse. It's now Official

drc

Sounds like he is talking about the hardcore recalcitrant, not those who genuinely are looking and cannot find work. Lets face it, if you refuse job after job then there is not much else the government can do except to get tough.

olly300

ceridwen wrote: »

Hence - I wonder just who this workfare scheme is aimed at? Is it aimed at those who really ARE "workshy" or would it be a broad brush approach and they would even try to force those who are provably not "workshy" (as they've held down jobs for years or have lots of proof that they couldnt get one in the first place on leaving education).?

Broad brush approach.

The vast majority of people who will be forced to do it will those who are difficult to employ:
1. Older people - everyone here is aware age discrimination exists. This scheme won't help them and in fact probably help to alienate others in society.

2. Those with disabilities who are kicked of ESA but their disabilities are real and their condition varies daily. After a few emergencies scheme providers will work out how not to have them on their schemes so there will be A4E sitting around ones for them.

3. Those with learning disabilities who were previously working but found themselves unluckily unemployed after redundancy. (I have visions of some poor sod having to deal with 6 people like one of my neighbours' and former colleagues'. They will work but don't ask them to do something complicated or not routine otherwise you will be placating them for 2-6 hours.)

4. Single parents who can't find work to fit into school hours/weekends due to being in an area of lots of single parents and not having childcare. Some will happily do it because they won't be sitting at home.

5. Those in their late teens-30s who live at home and have been indulged by their parents and so will throw tantrums/fight anyone telling them what to do if they aren't hiding round the corner smoking. The scheme is useful for them but unfortunately until their parents kick them out nothing will work.

6. Those who are illiterate - They will again work but you are giving them false hope if there isn't a proper job at the end of it. They need to be taught how to read, write etc. if they have any hope of getting into long term work. I've met people like that on and off since childhood.

7. Those from households of generations of unemployed people who have absolutely no motivation. They will turn up rather than lose money if they haven't worked out how to get out of the scheme, but they won't do anything.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

girleight@ wrote: »

I think they would have to monitor it quite carefully as there would be a real risk of it costing people their jobs.

It will cost jobs. No doubt.

Also it will cost NI & PAYE payments to the revenue.

Its a PR exercise..

Jowo_2

Here's a 2007 take on the introduction of higher conditionality for the receipt of unemployment benefits. Quite presciently, the author said it would require a crisis before such schemes were accepted by the UK public, and sure enough, I think the deficit has whetted the appetite for it, plus the news that migrants coming to the UK take up most of the new job opportunities.

"It is clear that the approach will be revolutionary, breaking with the European concept of entitlement. Rather than tackling poverty per se, the focus will be on tackling the behaviour which leads to poverty — namely worklessness, educational failure and family breakdown.

Mr Cameron is much taken by the work of William Galston, a political theorist behind the Clinton-era welfare reforms. Galston identified three steps to escaping poverty: finish school, marry before having children and avoid teenage pregnancy. Among those who did all three, only 8 per cent were poor. Of those who did none, 79 per cent were poor. "



http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/313841/cameron-means-business-on-welfare-the-tories-are-the-radicals-again.thtml

hallmark

You lot are completely missing the point & failing to recognise the real victim here.


Jeremy Kyle: His viewing figures are going to drop through the floor.

Jowo_2

And this DWP report that studies workfare schemes across the world indicates that the schemes have patchy and limited success in improving employment outcomes for the unemployed.

http://campaigns.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2007-2008/rrep533.pdf

1984ReturnsForReal_2

Jowo wrote: »

And this DWP report that studies workfare schemes across the world indicates that the schemes have patchy and limited success in improving employment outcomes for the unemployed.

http://campaigns.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2007-2008/rrep533.pdf

Lets face it, the only "success" it does have is reducing the employers wage bill.

Jowo_2

drc wrote: »

Sounds like he is talking about the hardcore recalcitrant, not those who genuinely are looking and cannot find work. Lets face it, if you refuse job after job then there is not much else the government can do except to get tough.

I really don't think the authorities can actually determine the won't-work types versus the-will-work-but- can't-find-a- job types. I don't think many job seekers get sanctioned for not applying for work - it's probably easier for them to apply and then just deliberately spoil the interview.

Plenty of people who have the skills to sabotage official push and pull activity to get them into employment can also wriggle out of these types of schemes. It's the less resourceful/more vulnerable types that can get clobbered.

If they want to bring in workfare, I think they can only do it for all, such as introducing an entry criteria to it such as claiming JSA for x months or x years instead of having a vague, subjective and unmeasurable trigger.

foreversummer

annie123 wrote: »

Am I the only one who has a problem with the implication that manual labour is a somehow something so nasty that it will flush out benefit cheats...."forced to do gardening and street cleaning"....that is insulting to the people who do it now and to anyone who does a manual job of any kind.

That's not the way I see it. If anything it acknowledges the dedication and hard work of those who do manual work, day in day out, month in month out, year in year out, as important work that needs doing.

As long as the scheme is set up in such a way as to not impact anyone's current job I think it is a great idea. And let's face it, there is so much that needs cleaning, repairing and sprucing up in all our communities that never normally gets done.

Foreversummer

tomterm8

So, basically, it's work trials, a scheme the labour government founded, but rebranded by the cuddly tories as a 'crack-down' on the 'unemployed scroungers'.

4 weeks hard labour... um, not exactly.

Yawn.