Return of the Workhouse. It's now Official

treliac

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss whether they are qualified or not. A qualification doesn't mean you are entitled to a decent job, and other jobs are beneath you.

I'm assuming you think that just because someone is qualified in something, they sholdn't be expected to take any less, though they should be entitled to take money from those taking lesser jobs?

Well said. None of us have any 'entitlement'. If we can't get the job we want we don't have a marketable skill and should face reality. I've done unskilled work before and would do it again. Not happily maybe but I wouldn't expect to be given handouts for nothing if I could contribute to my community.

neverdespairgirl

vaporate wrote: »

The posters FOR this proposed draconian policy, would you clean up crap off the streets to get your tax money back through JSA after working for many years and became unemployed by no fault of your own?

Don't lie now... I know it's hard when you are a serial compulsive liar lol

the proposal involves the long-term unemployed, rather than short-term, AIUI.

vaporate

SingleSue wrote: »

Unfortunately, there are a fair few who despite trying day in and day out to secure employment, that find themselves still in the position of trying 6 months after starting to claim.

Those who have a degree education who having failed to secure their job of choice, then trying for any job and being told they are over qualified (and the employers being scared of taking them on as they believe it is a stop gap job).

Those who have differing needs to others which scares employers, those who are seen as being too old, or even too young or living in an area which suffers from high unemployment.

The ones caught up in this will not just be the don't want to work people but also the ones who have worked for many years but have been made redundant and possibly because of one of the reasons above, have found it impossible to find any job.

What about those who have had their ESA removed but still suffer significant difficulties in the work place? Most of those would not be able to have a really physical work placement...what measures would the authorities bring in for those?

I know my limitations, one of those is the very things they are talking about...I cannot garden even in my leisure time, I cannot walk around for hours on end but I can work in an office seated or in employment where there is an option to sit (check out etc). I don't as yet class myself as disabled but an employer might (probably would in fact bearing in mind I am now reliant on crutches) and this would go against me in applying for employment.

My arguement though is that my brain works, I can type on a computer, I can handle pressure and time constraints just as well as when my body did play ball so my employability for an office job is just the same as it was before....I just need to allow extra time for getting from the car to the office that is all.

There would be many others in my position, able to work, wanting to work but finding employers not quite wanting to take the perceived risk....and hence, a fair few still being on unemployment benefits many months later.

As a way forward, errr...I have no ideas to be honest. Something certainly needs to be done to get those who really do not want to work, out working but care does need to be taken that it is targeted at the right people.

My usual answer is education but I am not so sure that would work in some cases either!

Well said.

x

:beer:

Shakethedisease

Alright, I can't be bothered with this attitude issue you appear to have.

You've already assumed so much about one poster and fallen foul, and here you are doing it again.

Eh ? I was telling you about the situation as it is in my area ? And explaining why I find your attitude as distasteful as you find mine.

As for Generali.. he's more than fallen foul himself in making mistaken assumptions about me recently. I got over it am sure he will to. This IS just a forum you know... shove me on your ignore list if you're that bothered by my differing opinions.:)

Didn't do it to get tax money back. Did it to earn money.

Exactly what the point I've been making !

There is nothing whatsoever stopping IT workers, financial services workers etc moving to a different industry if they can't find jobs in their previous industry.

I think it's the sheer numbers trying to do exactly that, all at the same time which is problematic.

I've done unskilled work before and would do it again. Not happily maybe but I wouldn't expect to be given handouts for nothing if I could contribute to my community.

For £64 a week for a month ?

treliac

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Look, I hire people. We get people sent from the job centre. They are not interested in the jobs, and we have yet to take someone on who's been sent. We always take those on who have found it out themselves.

Why? Simple. You can tell who wants to work, and who doesn't.

It's not hard to find people to come to an interview. It's extremely hard to find someone who's going to work.

It's because people on JSA have to show they are applying for vacancies. People I know who are trying to recruit personal assistants to help with home care tasks complain that they get time wasters applying to them to fulfil this criteria, who admit they don't know what the work is about and don't actually want it anyway.

Graham_Devon

The point seems to be lost.

It's not that I'm saying people without jobs should be expected to do horrible jobs such as I did, rather that people without jobs for a lengthy period should not expect to take money off those other people doint the horrible jobs, in return for doing absolutely nothing. We have a problem with work shy, there is no point in tryign to brush it under the carpet. Some people looking desperately for work will fall foul of this, but I really don't think they will mind tbh.

It's just 4 weeks work.

4 weeks, in what seems to be, a whole year.

Look at us, a country that has everything, moaning and saying it wouldnt be fair to get people to work for 4 weeks in return for money paid 52 weeks of the year, out of other peoples pockets.

Meanwhile, in places like Denmark, people get out there and work. Why? Because you don't automatically get benefits. There is no choice. And I tell you what else....do you ever hear of the poor starving in Denmark? Seems to work there. They also have a version of what's being proposed in return for benefits I believe. What makes our country so special? Seriously? Some people seem to hold themselves so high, that they can't possibly be asked to do something in return for a living.

We moan because the polish have got of their rears, moved entire countries to find work, and they are taking "our" jobs we never wanted in the first place, hence the vacancy for those wanting to do the work. They don't moan, they change their entire life to earn a wage.

To be honest, our attitude when it comes to this sort of stuff absolutely stinks. It may seem a lon way away, but in other parts of the world, people are risking life and death to make a few pennies for their families, and here we are, having pretty much everything, moaning that we may be made to work 4 weeks (made up of just 30 hours) a year for our privaliged living status, and 52 weeks of payments, and it's not even minimum wage, and its just so unfair.

treliac

Shakethedisease wrote: »

For £64 a week for a month ?

That's just part of what you get if the state is keeping you. You also get housing benefit and tax credits and anything else you qualify for.

AIUI the govt will be streamlining the system to eliminate the complexity of all these pots of different benefits.

treliac

vivatifosi wrote: »

There is nothing whatsoever stopping IT workers, financial services workers etc moving to a different industry if they can't find jobs in their previous industry. Of course, it will pay less, but possibly more than you would get on benefits. I've had to do this, you have to be pragmatic in a downturn.

Quite likely not, particularly if you have children. My brother was made redundant at Easter. He now won't take a job as he can't find one for 22-25k which is what he would have to earn to be better off working than on benefits.

This is why I wonder how the govt expects to get people into work with the disparity between pay and cost of living.

sticky23

They've been doing this in Denmark for years... And it works. Current un-employment rate is 4%. If you are un-employed there, you have to be available for work the following day. If they can't find work for you, you have to report to the jobcentre every day, and apply for jobs from there.

Inactivity is the worst thing for illnesses like depression and bad backs. This helps people get out of bed every day. If you don't like the nature of what's on offer, the impetus will be on for finding something better..

There is nothing wrong with being a cleaner - I've done it in the past, and would do it again. However I can't recall the last time I've seen a British cleaner. Why are we importing people to do something so unskilled as cleaning, while millions are sitting on their backsides watching day time telly?

foreversummer

vaporate wrote: »

:rotfl:


CRAP.

It's punishing the unemployed. Would you clean the streets like some peasant?

Up your jacksie.

Actually, I've no problem with that. My husband did it voluntarily twenty years ago between jobs. I'm actually very grateful for the so called 'pleasants' who clean our streets. One of my friends happens to be bin man collecting refuse for the last 30 years. A great guy, bought up a family and never claimed a penny in his life.

As for me, I've never been unemployed since I left school at 17 and have no intention of being unemployed as now I run my own business. I really don't care what anyone does for a living as long as they work and are willing to take a job to provide for themselves.

My gripe is with the unemployed who have chosen not to work because they are quite happy sitting on their backsides taking benefits from tax payers. I have known them and have lived among them. We cannot afford this attitude in this country anymore. If you are genuinely unemployed and make every effort to find employment then there is no problem.

What's your position the vaporate? Perhaps you should tell us your position and why you feel the need to defend the work-shy.

Foreversummer