Metro Penalty Fare Notice

WickedWolfie

Suggest you post this on:

www.railforums.co.uk

or

www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk

Where you should get advice BUT it is likely, having had a quick look, that they will advise that you have to pay the fees. While some folk have posted in less than sympathetic terms I am afraid that legally they appear to be correct.

bigturnip

daveyjp wrote: »

You asked a question I provided the answer - I don't make the rules!

If you have an issue with "shy" guards complain to the train operator.

So who does make the rules of who is a 'fare dodger'? Surely there has to be intent.

geordieracer

Coblcris wrote: »

Byelaws.
I concur.
By all means !

I am still looking for UK wide legislation that says you must not travel without a ticket as averred earlier.

Its in the national conditions of carriage which are here http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

Thanks for your input. I take it you have never had kids of your own then? If so, i feel sorry for them. If my daughter is classed as a minor and still in full time education and below the age where she can seek legal employment where will she find the money in order to pay the fine. I do not question her having to pay the £20 for her mistakes, but surely the company should have to write to her legal guardians in order for them to pay the fine. Under current law, if you cannot demonstrate that the admin fee is justifiable, ie cost £30 to type and post it out, it is unenforceable. I hope you dont ever get a job with any authority or god help us, you keep on cleaning them cubicles.

Its irrelevant whether i have kids or not. I told you that you would not like what i had to say and you haven't. Fair enough.

you are still mistaking the law for Car parking fines for fines that you receive on the railway. It quite clearly states on the penalty fare notice that the fine has to be paid within a certain amount of days and if not then there will be a further penalty. This is enforceable and given that i have never heard of anyone using your bit of 'MSE car parking fine' advice when trying to get out of paying the extra penalty.

Please take it from someone who works in the industry, you will not be able to use what you have said to any good effect. And no we dont have to inform you of her getting a fine at all - that is her responsibility.


Oh yeh and just because you dont like some good and proper advice on what to do now and in the future you tell me to carry on cleaning the cubicles.. HA HA your funny.. :T:T

geordieracer

bigturnip wrote: »

So who does make the rules of who is a 'fare dodger'? Surely there has to be intent.

The rules state that if you are unable to buy a ticket due to the station having no ticket issuing facilities then you either find the guard or purchase one at the earliest possibility. If they dont have a permit to travel machine there then they are not part of the penalty fare scheme - which a few TOCs are not.

BUT they would have rail enforcement officers or PCSOs or even the BTP to catch the people who would like to dodge the fare and then thats a whole different kettle of fish.

dizzybuff

Quote:
Thanks for your input. I take it you have never had kids of your own then? If so, i feel sorry for them. If my daughter is classed as a minor and still in full time education and below the age where she can seek legal employment where will she find the money in order to pay the fine. I do not question her having to pay the £20 for her mistakes, but surely the company should have to write to her legal guardians in order for them to pay the fine. Under current law, if you cannot demonstrate that the admin fee is justifiable, ie cost £30 to type and post it out, it is unenforceable.



Okay you may be right she is all of the above , however she is not below the age of criminal responsibility.

She knows whats right and whats wrong ??? Yes ???

If she was wearing leggings , why not just hold her ticket or tuck it in her keggings or her knickers ? ( Ive dont this on a few occasions )

Is she has told a white lie , pay the fine , but to be honest it would be chores or coming out of her pocket money to pay back if she lived in my household . and before you ask Yes I do have kids .

A £30 admin fee seems resonable , bear in mind you would have to pay for the administrator to type it , the postroom worker to sort it ,and frank the mail . The paper the electricity etc to print the letter. I just think pay and make your daughter pay you back , regardless if it was asilly mistake .

Sorry if you dont like my reply. Its just my opinion.

geordieracer

This is the problem with people on this whole site dizzybuff - if they dont get the answer they were looking for they turn round and start slagging someone..

maybe if they just thought for a moment and took a bit more responsibility for themselves and family they wouldn't get into these scrapes

king100

macthemountie wrote: »

:mad:

Hi Guys,

we received a letter through the post from IRCAS who deal with fines handed out for travelling on the Metro without a valid ticket. My daughter who was 15 years old had bought a ticket and gave it to her friend to keep in her back pocket as she was wearing leggings and had no where to keep it.

Anyhow, she was asked to show her ticket at the Haymarket station and her friend could not find it. She was told she had to be giving a penalty notice and could write in and explain the situation.

As usual, she was scared to come home and tell us and kept it quiet. 4 weeks later we received a letter saying the fine had not been paid within the 21 days and therefore the right to appeal was lost and they had added a £30 admin fee on to the original £20 fine.

I emailed them and said I was not happy that they had not wrote to me first, as her parent/legal guardian seeing as she was a minor? Also, they were aware of her age at the time and she gave them her correct address and details etc.

I also told them that I found their admin fee unfair, unreasonable and unenforceable. They wrote back ignoring that part and said the £50 needed to be paid within 14 days etc.

Should they not have automatically wrote of to a minors parents in the first place because my daughter has no means of income bearing in mind she is still at school. How was she meant to pay it.

I was thinking of sending in payment for the original £20 for the offence of having no ticket because she did not have one on her possession. Whether she had bought a one in the first place is anybodys guess because yes my daughter tells the odd porkie, dont all teenage kids 0:}

ANy suggestions would be helpful.

Cheers. :T

On your fine what section was she charged under?

geordieracer

king100 wrote: »

On your fine what section was she charged under?

Probably the 'Travelling without a valid ticket' part but given that her daughter had kept it from her im not sure she knows

anewman

Can they really haul a 15 year old before the courts? - and fine them? (when they have no means to pay the fine)

Also I suspect the byelaws are outdated and infact may violate some laws. Even if travel without a valid ticket is a crime under a byelaw, I thought it was against the law to make a profit from crime? (In this case profit is being made via the fine and admin fee as it does not reflect the actual or potential losses due to not purchasing a ticket). Even if my point of view has some merit I don't envisage putting it forward in court would be helpful though.

I don't know what the Metro in Newcastle is like now but when I used it a good few years ago it seemed like you could easily get away without buying a ticket (I did purchase a ticket for my entire journey of course).

FATBALLZ

Doesn't sound right to me either that a 15 year old with no entitlement to state benefit or legal employment can be fined £50, what are they expected to do, steal it?