Opinions please on family child care issue

Blue_Monkey

Hi OP,

I don't yet have kids, but plan to at some point. And my mother expects to look after them, at least on a part-time basis. In theory it sounds great, but I worry that in practice mixing business with pleasure in this way will be more hassle than its worth - for various reasons, but the main being that "odd power struggle" that someone else mentioned....

Yes, you're getting a 'good deal' financially, but this is about the principle. My initial reaction to your posts (I read the whole thread) is to say "sod her, go elsewhere", but I guess it's not that black and white. Your mother does sound manipulative and it does sound like she's perhaps a bit of a martyr what with having to do everything to her convenience. She shouldn't be trapping you in to an arrangement just because she knows its cheaper than a real childminder; she should be doing this to help you out.....

Maybe the best way to tackle this is to sit down with her and review the arrangement including both sides' expectations. Could you ask her why she thinks she should still be paid when you'll be on ML and she won't have the kids? Could you suggest moving to a daily/hourly rate to make it fairer? I reckon once you've done as much as you can to know you've tried to make this work from both sides, the answer of what to do will come to you. What I mean is, if you try all you can to let her know this isn't currently working but that you want to get to a point where it works for both of you and she's still being unreasonable, I would say it's definitely time to walk away from this set-up..... You need to try and communicate, even if she won't - at least you'll know you did what you could.

Best of luck. I can sympathise to a point. A few years back my mother offered to lend me and OH some money for a deposit on a house. I was contemplating the offer a few weeks later and took her along with us to view a place, and when OH wasn't in earshot she said something very unfair about him that could only have served to make me rethink our relationship. It was as if she thought by lending me the money she'd gained some kind of right to say what she wanted with a view to manipulating me into seeing what she wanted me to see.

Needless to say I declined the offer. As much as I love her dearly, it works better for me keeping her at a little distance when it comes to my life. Perhaps you need to do the same, shame as it is...

Take care, and keep us posted.

Ex-Spendaholic

Just thought I would update. Sadly the issue never was resolved.

The baby arrived safe and well just over a week ago. On the day of the birth the grandparents had the other kids from 1pm (when I went to hospital through to 8.30 pm when I got home from hospital complete with new baby). I tried to get home sooner but the hospital wouldn't allow it.

Came home from hospital somewhat bruised and battered (as you do after having a baby) and really just wanting to get to bed. However my kids were still up waiting to see me and the baby (wouldn't have had it any other way) and the grandparents lurked about for a few hours as did BIL and SIL.

So just before they went my mother made the comment "well we won't be needed this week now that you're on maternity leave". I chose to ignore her as quite frankly I wasn't getting into any debate in front of other family members and just wanted to get the moses basket assembled, bottles made etc and get to bed.

So in the baby's first week OH was off work. My dad text to say he would collect DD from nursery and the other DD from school and they could have their dinner there. This took place on 3 days which is generally the norm as thats what happens when I'm at work. I thought they were being kind and thats what happened.

On Friday I paid them the usual amount. I was starting to think that the right thing to do was pay them whilst I'm on full pay and tell them straight that I wouldn't be paying them when on SMP. I was also going to ask for an afternoon a week or something of the kids going there just to keep the kids happy and give me a chance to attend appointments etc with the new baby where necessary.

Then just yesterday I had called in with the 2 DDs. DD1 asked what days she would be going after school. My mother very quickly turned round and said "your mummy is off work now so you don't need to come here". My DS told me last night that granny said that he could call in now and then when he is passing. :mad: DD had said something about daddy going back to work today and there was a sneery comment to the effect of "oh your mummy will know her maker then".

I know that this should have been sorted out by now. TBH I'm not actually sure why I'm posting but I think I just need to get things off my chest.

I started to feel guilty about the money thing and thought that me not paying would leave them in a predicament. That was of course until I got a text from my dad today to say that he has got his Sky Sports package added and its "only" £22 per month extra. :mad: So obviously they aren't that hard up.

I don't know what to do now. The people who will get hurt through this is my children who think the world of their grandparents. They are not going to understand the "pay to stay mentality". However why should I give in. Surely any decent grandparent doesn't need to be paid to see their grandchildren? I'm not asking or wanting them to ook after the kids as if I was at work but I think the insinuation that the kids arent really welcome now is downright cruel.

The kids have asked me a few times when they are going round. I keep saying I don't know as I really don't know what to say.

So do I:

1. Go round and tell them I'll pay the money each month for the next year but expect them to still have the kids the 3 afternoons?

2. Go round and tell them they can have the money but do naff all for it.

3. Go round and say they can have the money now but nothing when SMP kicks in.

4. Tell them they either see their grandchildren as grandchildren rather than moneyspinners and they are getting naff all?

I do feel a bit let down and hurt in all of this TBH.

Apricot

Personally I wouldn't pay them. You were paying them for a service which they are effectively no longer willing to provide. You wouldn't pay someone who wasn't family if they weren't having your children any more so I don't see why you should pay them. Surely most normal people would realise that was going to happen - I wouldn't even mention the money aspect to be them though. If they ask for it next month after not having your children just ask them why - you paid them to look after your children and now they aren't doing that you won't be paying them. They have absolutely no right to kick up a fuss about it so if they do I would advise you to walk away, put it all down in writing and explain to them how you feel - seeing it in black and white may make them realise.

I think in the long run this is going to be the best situation for you, as you obviously already feel slightly resentful of the way they are treating your arrangement.

kegg_2

maybe this has been the out they are looking for and they no longer wanted to provide childcare?

As to you children wanting to see nannie and grandad why not just invite then to sunday lunch or tea. Seeing them doesn't have to mean that they have them at their house.

Fang_3

Ex-Spendaholic wrote: »

Just thought I would update. Sadly the issue never was resolved.

The baby arrived safe and well just over a week ago. On the day of the birth the grandparents had the other kids from 1pm (when I went to hospital through to 8.30 pm when I got home from hospital complete with new baby). I tried to get home sooner but the hospital wouldn't allow it.

Came home from hospital somewhat bruised and battered (as you do after having a baby) and really just wanting to get to bed. However my kids were still up waiting to see me and the baby (wouldn't have had it any other way) and the grandparents lurked about for a few hours as did BIL and SIL.

So just before they went my mother made the comment "well we won't be needed this week now that you're on maternity leave". I chose to ignore her as quite frankly I wasn't getting into any debate in front of other family members and just wanted to get the moses basket assembled, bottles made etc and get to bed.

So in the baby's first week OH was off work. My dad text to say he would collect DD from nursery and the other DD from school and they could have their dinner there. This took place on 3 days which is generally the norm as thats what happens when I'm at work. I thought they were being kind and thats what happened.

On Friday I paid them the usual amount. I was starting to think that the right thing to do was pay them whilst I'm on full pay and tell them straight that I wouldn't be paying them when on SMP. I was also going to ask for an afternoon a week or something of the kids going there just to keep the kids happy and give me a chance to attend appointments etc with the new baby where necessary.

Then just yesterday I had called in with the 2 DDs. DD1 asked what days she would be going after school. My mother very quickly turned round and said "your mummy is off work now so you don't need to come here". My DS told me last night that granny said that he could call in now and then when he is passing. :mad: DD had said something about daddy going back to work today and there was a sneery comment to the effect of "oh your mummy will know her maker then".

I know that this should have been sorted out by now. TBH I'm not actually sure why I'm posting but I think I just need to get things off my chest.

I started to feel guilty about the money thing and thought that me not paying would leave them in a predicament. That was of course until I got a text from my dad today to say that he has got his Sky Sports package added and its "only" £22 per month extra. :mad: So obviously they aren't that hard up.

I don't know what to do now. The people who will get hurt through this is my children who think the world of their grandparents. They are not going to understand the "pay to stay mentality". However why should I give in. Surely any decent grandparent doesn't need to be paid to see their grandchildren? I'm not asking or wanting them to ook after the kids as if I was at work but I think the insinuation that the kids arent really welcome now is downright cruel.

The kids have asked me a few times when they are going round. I keep saying I don't know as I really don't know what to say.

So do I:

1. Go round and tell them I'll pay the money each month for the next year but expect them to still have the kids the 3 afternoons?

2. Go round and tell them they can have the money but do naff all for it.

3. Go round and say they can have the money now but nothing when SMP kicks in.

4. Tell them they either see their grandchildren as grandchildren rather than moneyspinners and they are getting naff all?

I do feel a bit let down and hurt in all of this TBH.

Firstly - congratulations on the new baby and safe birth!

Secondly, and this is the part you may not like - grow a backbone or be quiet. Seriously. You have been given a ridiculous amount of advice and you have chosen not to act on it. You are being taken for a ride by your manipulative and frankly disgusting parents who are abusing your situation for their own financial gain. I actually cannot believe for one second that anyone would consider someone doing that to their own daughter is an appropriate person to be around children. They are not.

Let's look at the facts - your parents are vile. They are forcing you to pay for their luxuries and using your children to make sure you do it.

You cannot afford to pay them, in financial terms and in emotional terms. This is abuse and it not only threatens the relationship that you have with your parents (which frankly is toxic beyond measure) but also your relationship with your children. You cannot allow this to continue.

So you have one question to answer, and it is very, very simple - what matters more to you - your children's security and future, or your disgraceful parents' luxuries? I should think it's a no brainer.

Whether you will act on this, I can't say for sure, but I will wish you luck because with parents like that, you're a bloody miracle. They don't deserve you, but your children do, and you need to make the choice to be an even better mother than you come across as, because you do sound like a fabulous one.:)

themull1

Ex-Spendaholic wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses.

Firstly I'll point you that I can afford my children and it is up to me whether or not I keep having them. There is no need for rudeness. I don't have an issue paying the grandparents to look after the kids but am querying whether I should pay when they aren't looking after them.

The 2 eldest are not there before school, I bring them to school. The eldest finishes school at 3.30 pm and walks home. 2nd child finishes school at 3pm and they collect her. The 3rd child is there from 9am to 5pm.

The money I pay does not cover any activities. My mother refuses to go to playgroup. Likewise on one of the days the eldest needs collected from their house at 4.30 pm in order to attend an activity. Neither of the grandparents will drive him so it means either OH finishing work early or me. The activity is 9 miles away from their house (beside my work) so I drive from there collect him and then bring him back and sit outside for an hour waiting on him. Life would be so much easier if he could be dropped off there and then I finish work as normal and pick him up but thats not an option. If the youngest has a speech therapy appointment or anything like that then I get out of work to take her.

If the kids are being taken somewhere for the day by them then I cover all costs so that isn't coming out of the monthly rate.

With regard to support outside of this arrangement well there is none. OH and I don't go out in the evenings. It just doesn't happen. We don't feel we can ask and we aren't offered. OH and I don't have any time to ourselves. The only time I'm away from the kids is when I'm working, likewise for him. Thats fine though it was our decision to have children. We spend our spare time taking them out for meals, cinema, swimming etc. Its an awful thing to say but I really need to give birth on one of my working days between 9-5pm. If it happens any other time the hassle will be like no other.

When I return to work the 3rd child will be at preschool from 9am to 1.30 pm each day. I therefore need to make the decision whether to change my hours to work 8.30 to 1pm each day (OH could drop them all off and I'll collect them) and get a childminder for baby number 4. Alternatively I keep with the current arrangement.

You will still end up paying more than you do now for a childminder, and have to pay them in the holidays. I think its good of your parents to look after your kids especially for £150, ours was £500 a month for a part time nursery place.!! Stick with your parents, why not sit down and actually discuss the situation with them?

gravitytolls

Amanda65 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh ! The point is that the OP wouldn't be paying a nursery presumably while she is on mat leave as she will be looking after her children other than times when her parents (the children's Grandparents !!)want to see them.

Proc - my children were always MY responsibility but that didn't stop my parents offering help when they were little and I was working, free of charge, as they wanted to spend time with their grandchildren. I never took advantage of the situation and always worked round their plans but they actually wanted to help and I hope, that if needed when I have grandchildren, I will do the same.

OP - it sounds as though your parents have come to rely on the money. I think you should sit them down as soon as possible and say that as of such and such a date they won't be needed for child care while you are on mat leave as you cannot afford the extra strain on your budget - and then send then on here to see if there is any way that they could cut their costs to minimise the loss. And good luck with the impending arrival

Agreed, it's hardly giving up work and going onto benefits. In fact, years ago, it was the norm for GP's to help out with childcare,rather than rely on nursseries and registered strangers. IMO, it's a great shame that so many folk believe there is nothing without a price attached any more!

Do you receive childcare credits? If so perhaps a childminder and wraparound care via the school is worth investigating?

Good luck with the new baby, you are very blessed with a loving husand, almost 4 gorgeous children, and you need to consider everything else as a blip on the radar. If you can arrange things so that the blip is a more distant, that would be great, if not, you reaLLY need to learn to close the door on it so it doesn't damage your home life ~ easier said than done, I know.

milliemonster

Just wanted to say congratulations on the birth of your new baby!

I have read through most of this thread and thought I would offer my thoughts. I have 2 children aged 11 and 7. When I was pregnant with my first my parents offered to look after my baby whilst I went back to work part time, registered childcare was not an option for us as we both worked shifts and weekends. I offered to pay my mum and dad but they didn't want any money.

fast forward a few years, I had my second and the situation continued. My parents always had my kids for me but I always was made to feel a bit guilty about it. The my mum was diagnosed with breast cancer, I lost her 3 years ago, initially my dad continued to have my kids, but has since met someone else who has an extremely busy social life and now things are very difficult. I do now have registered childcare for my youngest but my eldest is now left home alone a lot, I have no alternative option.

What I am saying is that, things can change, now you have 4 children, circumstances are very different to when your parents offered in your first and indeed second pregnancy. I would have loved another child myself but if I'm honest I think my parents although would have looked after my 3 kids, would have made me feel very guilty about it. Looking after so many children is hard enough for a parent, but a grandparent who is getting older being tied so much to your children 38 weeks of the year might be just finding it starting to get too much, although they have become accostomed to the money. Now you have had another baby, they may be beginning to wonder when the day will come that they may have some time to themselves again. I appreciate you say that they don't have to do much with the elder children as they look after themselves, but they are still in your parents care while they have them and this means your parents are tied.

You also have to ask yourself what are you going to do if anything happens to them that they aren't physically capable of looking after them anymore? my mum was only 59 when she died, there was no history of breast cancer in our family, or cancer at all, this was a bolt out of the blue none of us expected, I sincerely hope for your sake nothing like this happens to you but do you have a contingency?

Of course I agree that the relationship between grandparents and their grandchildren is very special and grandparents should want to see their grandchildren for no monetary reward, that is fine if it is on their terms, but I do think if you are tying your parents to looking after 4 children 3 days a week or 5 mornings a week 38 weeks of the year then yes they should be paid regularly for this as they are effectively giving up their lives to look after your children. My father now will only have my children to stay when it is on his terms, which quite often is on my days off, I leave this to my children to decide if they want to go or not, I would still love another child but wouldn't have one because I just don't have the childcare options available to me anymore because of how we work.

Threebabes

I would go for option 4.

Don't pay them anything but then don't expect them to babysit for you either.

My mum used to childmind for me for my 3 kids. It wasnt so much the money it was the hold she had over me. If we disagreed about something she would tell me that she wouldn't mind the kids any more. She used them as bartering chips. To cut a long story short, I left work and I care for my kids myself, and wouldnt have it any other way.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Are they paying tax on the additional income? If not, they used you to commit fraud. Childminding rules are also an issue.

I'd rather use a minder. Dearer (CTC a godsend) but you know where you are.