Hula Groove Wedding Band - Threatened court action!

Takoda

ViolaLass wrote: »

I just wanted to add that of course, musicians in a band get no sick pay, no holiday pay, no pay when they're not at a gig (but perhaps doing something related to the gig e.g. practising) and no travel expenses etc.

Also £2000 divided by 11 is, again, not an unreasonable amount for an evening's work involving a skill (assuming the band is any good, I don't know them so have no idea) especially considering the manager will have taken a hefty cut, perhaps even 50%. Want cheaper bands? Book direct!

You are assuming that the bride booked the 11 piece band. We have never been told what size band she booked. Just that they wanted £1500 for cancelling. Knowing what we now know about HG it is more likely that they would charge much much more for an 11 piece band - more like 3 or 4 thousand! :eek:

Why are there so many professional musicians if the job is so rubbish? :rotfl::rotfl:You're exaggerating the negative points for your own reasons.

Takoda

Options for earning money from musicians I have personally known

• peripatetic music tuition in schools
• playing in the band on a cruise ship (+ FREE holiday)
• weddings and parties
• private instrument tuition (in own home no commute)
• seaside orchestra (spend the summer by the sea lovely!)

ViolaLass

blue_monkey wrote: »

So get a proper job then!!

There are millions of Self Employed people - myself included - I do this job knowing that I get no sick pay, no holiday pay, no money when there are no sales. That is what being self employed is all about.

Someone cancelled an order worth £70 yesterday - after 4 days, because they did not read the screen, T&C or confirmation email proplery. I did not threaten to take them to court, I did not tell them they had to have the goods regardless, I said 'no worries, it happens'. And it does happen 3 or 4 times a week. The goods are bespoke and are ordered especially for them, they were already ordered, I'll have to pay for them, I cannot return them, I cannot cancel the order. but whatever, that's business. A crap review plastered all over the internet for the sake of a days pay is really not worth it as it will cost me £1000's more in the long run.

You may wel have got away with standard T&C like those a while back but times are a changing and people will not accept being walked over any longer, forums such as these prove this. You have to move on and adjust your business accordinally.

I was commenting only on the pay rate of £20-ish per hour, which is not unreasonable for a self employed person for various reasons.

I haven't commented on the bit of the T&Cs pertaining to the cancellation charges. I don't really want to get into that because I don't know the details although I don't think I would have dealt with it that way.

The T&Cs my band had were, I think, not unreasonable (the ones you seem to be objecting to are not the ones we had). I was just trying to put forward the view that not all the band's T&Cs were unreasonable just because some might have been (treading carefully here).

Just to be clear, I really wasn't whinging about being self employed and I think telling me to "get a proper job" was unnecessary.

Also, regarding the £250 for an hour extra after midnight. Let's be sensible here, asking for the money even if the client just wants recorded music is clearly covering their backs and probably trying to ensure that it doesn't happen because, come on, anyone who decides on the night that they just MUST have another hour of recorded music at the price has more money than sense. The band have just put it in because they'll want to go to bed at the point.

Takoda

blue_monkey wrote: »

So get a proper job then!!

There are millions of Self Employed people - myself included - I do this job knowing that I get no sick pay, no holiday pay, no money when there are no sales. That is what being self employed is all about.

Someone cancelled an order worth £70 yesterday - after 4 days, because they did not read the screen, T&C or confirmation email proplery. I did not threaten to take them to court, I did not tell them they had to have the goods regardless, I said 'no worries, it happens'. And it does happen 3 or 4 times a week. The goods are bespoke and are ordered especially for them, they were already ordered, I'll have to pay for them, I cannot return them, I cannot cancel the order. but whatever, that's business. A crap review plastered all over the internet for the sake of a days pay is really not worth it as it will cost me £1000's more in the long run.

You may wel have got away with standard T&C like those a while back but times are a changing and people will not accept being walked over any longer, forums such as these prove this. You have to move on and adjust your business accordinally.

Some great points there BM.

Plus the joy of being self employed is the flexibilty to take holidays when you choose or to do something different for a while.

ViolaLass

Takoda wrote: »

Why are there so many professional musicians if the job is so rubbish? :rotfl::rotfl:You're exaggerating the negative points for your own reasons.

I'm clearly expressing myself badly and may have to withdraw if I'm making such a bad impression.

I wasn't making out that it's such a terrible profession, I was just pointing out that £20 an hour also has to cover all the other hours involved in preparing for and getting to the gig. I'm not saying that musicians are alone in having to cover this kind of stuff - teachers, for example, do work in the hours that they are not strictly being paid for but it does mean that the hourly rate is really lower. I'm commenting only on the hourly rate here, NOT THE CANCELLATION CHARGE (which I just don't want to get into).

Also, come on guys, you're having a go at me for the band's prices - if they're too expensive, don't book them! No one is forcing you. And again, given that they have a manager, he will be taking a large cut of the money.

Takoda

I think most MSE-ers who haven't booked a band before were shocked by the terms on the rider. Most bands at events I've attended have been happy with eating the same food as the guests but there you go. I'm not London based though so maybe that's the reason.

You expect picky terms from big stars like Madonna or whoever but not just from a little wedding band.:rotfl:

blue_monkey_2

Takoda wrote: »

Some great points there BM.

Plus the joy of being self employed is the flexibilty to take holidays when you choose or to do something different for a while.

Are you being sarcastic T or what, I cannot tell without the winky smiley, LOL.

The 'joy' of it for me is that I get to be home all day in the school holidays with the kids and I have to work all evening instead :rotfl:

I also have a netbook I take on holiday with me so I can answer emails and order the bespoke stuff so it is here for when I get back!

My husband loves it honestly, he does!! I'll even be taking it on holiday next week and then to the US with me when I go on holiday for 3 weeks, it has been the subject of a few (how do I put it...) 'heated discussions'. :rotfl:

blue_monkey_2

ViolaLass wrote: »

I'm clearly expressing myself badly and may have to withdraw if I'm making such a bad impression.

I wasn't making out that it's such a terrible profession, I was just pointing out that £20 an hour also has to cover all the other hours involved in preparing for and getting to the gig. I'm not saying that musicians are alone in having to cover this kind of stuff - teachers, for example, do work in the hours that they are not strictly being paid for but it does mean that the hourly rate is really lower. I'm commenting only on the hourly rate here, NOT THE CANCELLATION CHARGE (which I just don't want to get into).

Also, come on guys, you're having a go at me for the band's prices - if they're too expensive, don't book them! No one is forcing you. And again, given that they have a manager, he will be taking a large cut of the money.

You seemed to be sticking up for them... I'd start running now, it's early yet and the others haven't read this yet. :rotfl:

Sorry, just the way I read it was 'we are hard working musco's, we don't earn much, and all that....' and so I just replied accordinally.

Takoda

ViolaLass wrote: »

I'm clearly expressing myself badly and may have to withdraw if I'm making such a bad impression.

I wasn't making out that it's such a terrible profession, I was just pointing out that £20 an hour also has to cover all the other hours involved in preparing for and getting to the gig. I'm not saying that musicians are alone in having to cover this kind of stuff - teachers, for example, do work in the hours that they are not strictly being paid for but it does mean that the hourly rate is really lower. I'm commenting only on the hourly rate here, NOT THE CANCELLATION CHARGE (which I just don't want to get into).

Also, come on guys, you're having a go at me for the band's prices - if they're too expensive, don't book them! No one is forcing you. And again, given that they have a manager, he will be taking a large cut of the money.

The manager plays in the band - he's a percussionist. So he's probably raking it in from his two roles!

Teaching is a vocation - the majority don't count the hours we do because we love the job. The people who do count the hours tend to leave (40% leave the profession within their first 4 or 5 years!)

No one's having a go at you - we're just upholding our view that most of the band's terms take the mickey.

Takoda

blue_monkey wrote: »

Are you being sarcastic T or what, I cannot tell without the winky smiley, LOL.

The 'joy' of it for me is that I get to be home all day in the school holidays with the kids and I have to work all evening instead :rotfl:

I also have a netbook I take on holiday with me so I can answer emails and order the bespoke stuff so it is here for when I get back!

My husband loves it honestly, he does!! I'll even be taking it on holiday next week and then to the US with me when I go on holiday for 3 weeks, it has been the subject of a few (how do I put it...) 'heated discussions'. :rotfl:

Nope not sarcastic with you BM.

My Dad was self employed, my Mum was for part of her working life. I've done supply in the dim and distant past which is quite like being self employed (even if you do technically work for an agency you can still choose which days you work)