Tenants not sticking to the rules

clutton_2

i read recently of a case where a landlord had caused carbon monoxide poisoning to one his tenants... he claimed that the tenants right to "quiet enjoyment" over-rode his right to force entry to do repairs ... the judge utterly disagreed and he was found guilty ....

if this ever happens to me again, i shall force entry and do the gas check and repairs.. and let a tenant take me to court and see what a judge says...

the law cannot enforce a repairing liability on a landlord without the means, however difficult for the tenant, to fulfil those obligations.... ie without allowing a LL access even if the tenant disagrees.....

Pennylane

lynzpower wrote: »

its amazing what sometimes is a concern to the LL

In my experience Landlords bang on about how someone smoking might invalidate thier insurance, yet dont PAT test appliances, never show 5 year electrical certs, some you are lucky to get a gas safety cert, dodgy locks, you name it, Ive seen it.

Have a look here:

http://www.capic.org.uk/house_fires.html

Scroll down to causes of domestic fires:

I think this just highlights my original post really Lynzpower:) We are first time Landlords and were determined to do things correctly and fairly. We wanted the house to be nice for the tenant and we wanted a good tenant. When I'd finished decorating and cleaning I actually went outside and came back in and pretended I would be renting it (sad I know!!:rotfl:) and I thought it was lovely!

Everything that needed PAT testing is done, the smoke alarm tests/paperwork is done, deposit scheme, the EPC stuff, insurance ... I could go on, but everything was done and we both have copies of everything. He actually laughed about the amount of paperwork and signing he had to do and I told him if I do anything I do it properly and it was for both our benefits.

I am sure there are some rubbish LLs out there and there are some rubbish tenants. I'm not saying mine is rubbish, just that if he is smoking in there, he has been unfair.

My husband goes into loads of homes which are rented out and he comes home with stories about dodgy landlords and tenants who treat places like skips, so we wanted to get it right.

althestan

althestan wrote: »

But it is permissible to include things such as no smoking, no pets, no children in a tenancy agreement. If the tenant does not comply then they are in breach of said agreement and the landlord can seek a court order to evict on Ground 12: tenant alleged to be in breach of tenancy agreement for reasons other than rent arrears. The LL would need to correctly serve a notice seeking possession giving 2 weeks notice. This is a discretionary ground so a Judge would need to be convinced that it was reasonable for the tenant to lose their home.
The Tenant could try and argue that the no smoking clause is unfair under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. The Tenant would need to consider their limited security of tenure though.

Both parties have rights and obligations under the contract they have entered into. Enforcing those rights using the legal route is both expensive and inconvenient for both.
Best course of action – LL has concerns, LL speaks with tenant explains concerns, hopefully reaches an amicable solution, everyone happy.

clutton wrote: »

""The ‘smoking ban’ in public places and the legislation behind this has no relevance to this particular situation though. ""

but if any landlord tried to evict a tenant on smoking grounds ... i bet you anything you lke that this legislation would form part of the tenants' defence.....

tbs624 wrote: »

No, I chose to follow this part of your post and specifically ignored the rest of it

Yes you did miss the point and still do pretty pointless ignoring posts and taking what was said out of context.
Still lets take your point of view as correct. LLs it is pointless having agreement with a tenant because they can do what they want regardless? LLs may as well not bother with their obligations either then?
No where did I say the LL should go as far as trying to evict.
The Landlord does have plenty of options though, negotiation for starters, I am sure the tenant would be concerned at the thought the LL might take further action.

clutton_2

no one will ever stop someone else from smoking if they dont want to.. i guess OP will either have to evict, or live with the deceit.....

saversfriend

I'm currently renting. There's a few rules which I need to stick to, e.g. the landlord was happy for me to redecorate it (and gave me a month rent free to do so), but I had to paint the hall to a diferent colour than my first choice, at his request. This was included in the intial tenancy agreement.

At the end of the day, it's the landlord's property and it's basic respect to stick to the rules of the contract, which both parties have signed.

If I smoked in my flat (which is a non smoking one), it would be perfectly fair for the landlord to keep my deposit.

althestan

Just ask him to smoke outside at the back door or what ever.

I still smoke but not inside my house which I own. Still I could try and convince my wife that under legistlation banning smoking in public places etc I now have the right to smoke in side my home, i wonder if that argument would work?

clutton_2

:palthestan = i doubt if that arguement would work... as we all know "she who must be obeyed" is always right

althestan

clutton wrote: »

:palthestan = i doubt if that arguement would work... as we all know "she who must be obeyed" is always right

I know that to be true!
I would not want to smoke in the house any way not fair on kids, wife decorations etc.

As a young student I was asleep in a HMO when it went up in flames due to a fag down the back of a sofa - those nice foam sofas!

delain

althestan wrote: »

I know that to be true!
I would not want to smoke in the house any way not fair on kids, wife decorations etc.

As a young student I was asleep in a HMO when it went up in flames due to a fag down the back of a sofa - those nice foam sofas!

Someone flicked a fag butt on to one that was in our stairwell waiting to be collected when I lived in my flat in chav-land and we all had to go out of our windows on ladders at 3am when it went up in flames :eek::eek:

clutton_2

that is why the furnishing regulations came in re fire retardant fabrics.....