A Word of Warning to Us All (long)
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tesuhoha
Posts: 17,971 Forumite
This is a long and dire warning of how not to bring up your kids.
Today I went to visit a friend. She has three children and her kids have grown up alongside mine but they have been brought up very differently. Hers have had a very respectable but quite hard upbringing, having to do regular chores. No pocket money, few holidays and very modest gifts at birthdays and Christmas (aftershave and deodorant for instance). Her oldest son, now in his twenties, I dont know much about but he works and has a car. Her middle son works in the same company as my husband. His family have never helped him at all but he did well at school and really wanted to be a plumber so my husband gave him a start and now hes working very hard, earning about £700 a week, has paid off all his debts and is renting a lovely house in the country. He is taking his fiancee to the Maldives in the next couple of weeks. My friend's youngest, a girl, has never been thought to be very bright. She did not pass the 11 plus exam (we have grammar schools here) and she went to the local high school. In the past few years every time I have seen my friend she has expressed concern about her daughter finding her GCSEs very difficult but she could not help her as she is not academic either. Well, today I was told that she got two As, 3 Bs and 5 Cs and in her worst subject, maths she got a D (she was predicted an F). She got another couple of not so good results but in all it was excellent I thought. Also, this girl walked into Superdrug and asked if there were any vacancies and landed herself with a part-time job. Now she is going to go to college to do a public service course. She is being discouraged by her mother from doing A levels.
In contrast my kids have had everything, foreign holidays, music lessons, ballet lessons, karate, skiing lessons, expensive foreign school trips, expensive presents (my husband bought my son a guitar that cost £1,000 for his birthday a few years ago. It was supposed to be a reward to make him work at school but it ended up as a bribe and it did not work), weekend outings, and private education.
I'll start off with my son. Many of you know about him already but I'll tell you the extent of it now. As my daughter won a scholarship to a private primary school we decided to send him there as well, as it did not seem fair. So we paid half fees for her, and full fees for him. We also paid for extensive private tuition so that he would get into the grammar school (the high schools are bad here and we thought he would be bullied and not do well and there werent any sixth forms at the high schools at that time). I also took a year off work to educate him at home to bring him up to standard before he went back to the private school for year 6. Well, he passed his 11 plus with not brilliant marks, but it was a decent pass and he went to the grammar school. We think he was bullied but he has never admitted to this. He got in with a bad crowd and also got addicted to computer games during this time. He failed all his GCSEs and the grammar school would not accept him in the sixth form. Last year because he was heartbroken we paid for him to go to a private college to retake some GCSEs and to do 4 AS levels. This cost us £12,000 plus exam fees. He went downhill again after a couple of months but we thought he was doing okay enough to get his AS levels. However after his exams he admitted that he had done very badly. He got Us for 3 of them and an E for the other. He managed to pass the 3 GCSE's he took, so now he has 5 A-C GCSEs but it has cost us £12,000. My husband on hearing that he had done badly reluctantly and finally admitted that perhaps he was not academic and was very concerned about him ever being able to earn a decent wage. With this in mind he took him out to work with him plumbing at the end of July. After a couple of weeks my son started having sleeps in the van and everyone on site was laughing at him and then one morning (after making my husband late for work every day) he just would not get out of bed. So that was the end of that after a few more days of trying to get him up. Now he says he hated the plumbing, has learned his lesson how bad it is out there and wants to redo his A Levels. When he got his last GCSE result the principal of the private college said that he thought my son would probably have ended up with decent A Levels after 2 years and his ability was never in question. My husband started to say maybe...... and I said NO WAY. So now he's got an interview with the local college. Nowadays we dont give him any money and we are just going to wait and see what he does at college but we dont hold out much hope. He is totally unemployable. When I see the kind of boys that are employed in shops and supermarkets and then look at him I know that he will never get a job. He stays up all night and sleeps all day. He only has one friend. Hes not depressed but has no ambition whatsoever and no idea about how a man has to earn a living (hes 17). Oh and by the way, I admit yes we have pushed him at times but there have also been long periods when he has been left to make up his own mind and when this happens he prefers to do nothing at all.
My daughter is a different matter. Another one who was given everything. She went on to win an assisted place at an exclusive girls school so we have always paid fees for her although it wasnt that much, it was still enough to have an impact on us. She has always won prizes each year but in year 11 she won every single academic prize in her year. For her GCSEs it was 13 A*. She was predicted to go to Oxbridge but then in the sixth form she stopped trying. She still did well in her A levels and ended up in a top university studying chemistry and we were delighted. However, now she is about to go into her third year and she seems to have given up. She says that there are a lot of brilliant people at university and she cant compete with them. She is doing a retake exam this week and Im not sure if shes going to be allowed to continue at university. She also seems to have let herself go with the way she dresses as a goth although she is a beautiful girl. She fell over whilst drunk and damaged her foot very badly. She got a job and lostit because of her foot and I know she has run up her overdraft to over £1,000. I pay her rent and tuition fees and help her in many other ways but it doesnt seem to make any difference. If she has to leave uni then she will have to get a job and that will have to be the end of the financial support as we just cant do it anymore. We are not getting any younger and need to straighten ourselves out. I always thought if you gave kids lots of unconditional love they would turn out well and you couldnt spoil them but it doesnt seemed to have worked in our case.
We are now trying to pay off our debt which was up to £26,000 last year and is now £17,000. The house move was advised against on this site but it was the one thing that was for us and we have the financial situation well in hand now. However, our kids have been very expensively brought up and educated and it seems that it hasnt done them any good. So I would say to you that if you are thinking of paying for private education or of spoiling your kids in some way, then have a very long think about how you are bringing them up. Its not necessarily the money and the education, but the way they are treated and allowed to get away with things. You will probably say that we have been too soft with them and ruined them. I know that now. Last time I posted, someone said about my son, give him a computer and £10 a week. Hes ruined. I think that person was right.
Today I went to visit a friend. She has three children and her kids have grown up alongside mine but they have been brought up very differently. Hers have had a very respectable but quite hard upbringing, having to do regular chores. No pocket money, few holidays and very modest gifts at birthdays and Christmas (aftershave and deodorant for instance). Her oldest son, now in his twenties, I dont know much about but he works and has a car. Her middle son works in the same company as my husband. His family have never helped him at all but he did well at school and really wanted to be a plumber so my husband gave him a start and now hes working very hard, earning about £700 a week, has paid off all his debts and is renting a lovely house in the country. He is taking his fiancee to the Maldives in the next couple of weeks. My friend's youngest, a girl, has never been thought to be very bright. She did not pass the 11 plus exam (we have grammar schools here) and she went to the local high school. In the past few years every time I have seen my friend she has expressed concern about her daughter finding her GCSEs very difficult but she could not help her as she is not academic either. Well, today I was told that she got two As, 3 Bs and 5 Cs and in her worst subject, maths she got a D (she was predicted an F). She got another couple of not so good results but in all it was excellent I thought. Also, this girl walked into Superdrug and asked if there were any vacancies and landed herself with a part-time job. Now she is going to go to college to do a public service course. She is being discouraged by her mother from doing A levels.
In contrast my kids have had everything, foreign holidays, music lessons, ballet lessons, karate, skiing lessons, expensive foreign school trips, expensive presents (my husband bought my son a guitar that cost £1,000 for his birthday a few years ago. It was supposed to be a reward to make him work at school but it ended up as a bribe and it did not work), weekend outings, and private education.
I'll start off with my son. Many of you know about him already but I'll tell you the extent of it now. As my daughter won a scholarship to a private primary school we decided to send him there as well, as it did not seem fair. So we paid half fees for her, and full fees for him. We also paid for extensive private tuition so that he would get into the grammar school (the high schools are bad here and we thought he would be bullied and not do well and there werent any sixth forms at the high schools at that time). I also took a year off work to educate him at home to bring him up to standard before he went back to the private school for year 6. Well, he passed his 11 plus with not brilliant marks, but it was a decent pass and he went to the grammar school. We think he was bullied but he has never admitted to this. He got in with a bad crowd and also got addicted to computer games during this time. He failed all his GCSEs and the grammar school would not accept him in the sixth form. Last year because he was heartbroken we paid for him to go to a private college to retake some GCSEs and to do 4 AS levels. This cost us £12,000 plus exam fees. He went downhill again after a couple of months but we thought he was doing okay enough to get his AS levels. However after his exams he admitted that he had done very badly. He got Us for 3 of them and an E for the other. He managed to pass the 3 GCSE's he took, so now he has 5 A-C GCSEs but it has cost us £12,000. My husband on hearing that he had done badly reluctantly and finally admitted that perhaps he was not academic and was very concerned about him ever being able to earn a decent wage. With this in mind he took him out to work with him plumbing at the end of July. After a couple of weeks my son started having sleeps in the van and everyone on site was laughing at him and then one morning (after making my husband late for work every day) he just would not get out of bed. So that was the end of that after a few more days of trying to get him up. Now he says he hated the plumbing, has learned his lesson how bad it is out there and wants to redo his A Levels. When he got his last GCSE result the principal of the private college said that he thought my son would probably have ended up with decent A Levels after 2 years and his ability was never in question. My husband started to say maybe...... and I said NO WAY. So now he's got an interview with the local college. Nowadays we dont give him any money and we are just going to wait and see what he does at college but we dont hold out much hope. He is totally unemployable. When I see the kind of boys that are employed in shops and supermarkets and then look at him I know that he will never get a job. He stays up all night and sleeps all day. He only has one friend. Hes not depressed but has no ambition whatsoever and no idea about how a man has to earn a living (hes 17). Oh and by the way, I admit yes we have pushed him at times but there have also been long periods when he has been left to make up his own mind and when this happens he prefers to do nothing at all.
My daughter is a different matter. Another one who was given everything. She went on to win an assisted place at an exclusive girls school so we have always paid fees for her although it wasnt that much, it was still enough to have an impact on us. She has always won prizes each year but in year 11 she won every single academic prize in her year. For her GCSEs it was 13 A*. She was predicted to go to Oxbridge but then in the sixth form she stopped trying. She still did well in her A levels and ended up in a top university studying chemistry and we were delighted. However, now she is about to go into her third year and she seems to have given up. She says that there are a lot of brilliant people at university and she cant compete with them. She is doing a retake exam this week and Im not sure if shes going to be allowed to continue at university. She also seems to have let herself go with the way she dresses as a goth although she is a beautiful girl. She fell over whilst drunk and damaged her foot very badly. She got a job and lostit because of her foot and I know she has run up her overdraft to over £1,000. I pay her rent and tuition fees and help her in many other ways but it doesnt seem to make any difference. If she has to leave uni then she will have to get a job and that will have to be the end of the financial support as we just cant do it anymore. We are not getting any younger and need to straighten ourselves out. I always thought if you gave kids lots of unconditional love they would turn out well and you couldnt spoil them but it doesnt seemed to have worked in our case.
We are now trying to pay off our debt which was up to £26,000 last year and is now £17,000. The house move was advised against on this site but it was the one thing that was for us and we have the financial situation well in hand now. However, our kids have been very expensively brought up and educated and it seems that it hasnt done them any good. So I would say to you that if you are thinking of paying for private education or of spoiling your kids in some way, then have a very long think about how you are bringing them up. Its not necessarily the money and the education, but the way they are treated and allowed to get away with things. You will probably say that we have been too soft with them and ruined them. I know that now. Last time I posted, someone said about my son, give him a computer and £10 a week. Hes ruined. I think that person was right.
The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best
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Comments
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Feel sorry, that you feel so bad about overindulging your children. We all try to give as much as we can afford but sometimes its better to let them struggle for things. I have two young daughters and already over indulge them - its difficult not too. Over the years I've seen children thats handed everything and appreciate nothing. You've brought them up and educated them now let them stand on their own two feet and struggle for things!!0
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Yes, ive decided theyve got to find out about life the hard way from now on.The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best0
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Hey, you acted with the best of intentions at all times, don't feel bad. Sort your finances ruthlessley and meanwhile take a long term view; allow your children to find something that motivates them.Happy chappy0
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He's just come into the room and asked me if I'll restart his allowance when he goes to college. Its so hard. I dont want to and yet I feel so mean giving him nothing. Ive got to be strong.The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best0
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I also sound old! But my mother brought up 5 of us and we appreciate anything they do for us. Her advice to me was not to over indulge the girls and they'll grow up to appreciate the small things in life - I have to agree with her, but its difficult when you only have the 2.0
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ts_aly2000 wrote:Which was nice.
Take your friend's girl under your belt. I would, I'm like that with people. Good karma and all that among other things. Someone did it for me many years ago who didn't have to and I owe him so much.
My husband took my friend's boy under his belt and he's eternally grateful. However, I did try to persuade her to do A levels today but she said shes going to try the public service course first.The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best0 -
You're not being mean. Tell him to take responsibility for his own life.He's just come into the room and asked me if I'll restart his allowance when he goes to college. Its so hard. I dont want to and yet I feel so mean giving him nothing. Ive got to be strong.
Help him find a job to fund his own allowance.Happy chappy0 -
I have a savings account for him but I emptied it last year and the money went into his school fees. I am now paying £10 a month into it just so I can give him something when hes 21. As for working at Sainsburys I wish he could but its really difficult to get work at supermarkets here and hes not the sort of kid that employers go for. I wouldnt employ him when there are loads of enthusiastic streetwise kids out there. He lacks ambition and has no interest in work. But youre right I'm not to give him any money. Goodnight.ts_aly2000 wrote:Tell him no you bloody well won't!!
He can do what everyone else does and work at Sainsbury's on a checkout.
(((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
You are truly not being mean. Actually... what about a trust fund? Could set one up in his knowledge, letting him know that he has something to work towards at the end.The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best0 -
The "problem" is that you've been too kind to your children, so they see you as an unlimited source of money. You need a change of approach - they need to appreciate your financial situation, feel some of the fear, and this will hopefully motive them. Honestly, if we all had a limitless source of cash then we'd sit around doing nothing, but it's fear/need that drives us.Happy chappy0
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Nowt worse than a child with a sense of entitlement.
He needs to learn that mum & dad aren't always going to be there to pick up the pieces. He needs to beome independent - that is a lesson you can give hiim for free, and it's one that will prove to be invaluable in the future.0
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