Budget - tougher for DLA claimants

summerof0763

Breast_Cancer_Survivor wrote: »

I was terrified too, especially when I got to the labour ward & heard all the women screaming. :eek:

I had gas & air so I wasn't as brave as you. :rotfl:

lol the gas and air looked like a torture contraption!!
must admit once i had them,i thought why are these women screaming heh heh

Trialia

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Sorry, I really think questioning someone's professionalism is way out of order.

I would normally agree with you, but not in this case.

deeplyblue

The question of pain is, I think, relevant to the general worry point. We have no way of calibrating someone else's pain (or even our own IMO), which means that if you tell someone examining you that a particular activity causes you "pain", then they will interpret that according to their own ideas.

For example, I spent a week on a coloproctology ward which had a wide variety of ailments amongst the patients. I remember one person coming in to be checked for something or other, and screaming in pain when they took a blood sample. Another person there said, "Huh, what a ***, that's just having a blood sample taken." Now in fact the screamer had severe rheumatoid arthritis, and it was probably having the arm or wrist pulled around, not having the needle inserted that had led the scream. The person doing the judging had (I think) bowel cancer.

Now it is generally thought that cancer pain is the worst, and consequently the cancer sufferer had the right to be contemptuous of the pain of the arthritis sufferer. I was talking a couple of years ago to someone who is a specialist in palliative care, who said something I'd heard before, but not from such a reliable source. Cancer pain is very bad, but modern medicine has managed to make real progress with pain alleviation for cancer. (Though the side effects are, I understand, sometimes pretty unpleasant themselves). But, my source said, they are still having real trouble controlling the pain from arthritis, which can be agonising.

And the lack of hope of pain relief is itself a perpetual grinding down of the spirit.

But to those who have not encountered it, arthritis is having slightly knarled joints, or old people complaining about their "poor old bones". Ask an inexperienced decision maker to judge a case where someone says that trying to get dressed is "very painful" and they may simply assume that the claimant is exaggerating for effect. So the claim gets turned down, and the claimant asks for it to be looked at again, and then maybe it goes to appeal. And somewhere along the line, the claim is dealt with by someone who has come across arthritis pain either for themselves, or in the life of someone close to them. And it is only then that the claim gets allowed.

Meanwhile anyone who has seen a look of disbelief on the face of an official examining medic, fears the process of "assessment" as one where - especially in the face of draconian targets - those in power will simply disbelieve problems like "fatigue" and "pain." DLA legislation recognises that pain and fatigue are reasons why you might not be able to do something - for example, you can't walk 30 metres because it's too exhausting, or you can't reach above your shoulders because it's too painful.

The ATOS software used for ESA examinations did not recognise these factors (I understand that it was going to be amended). It's based on the "Can Do" CAN reach above your head - tick. If you can do anything once a week, or on a good day, or only at great cost in pain or fatigue, then you CAN do it - if necessary seven and half hours a day, five days a week. Unless that system is changed radically, a lot of people are going to have to explain to appeals panels the difference between "could probably do in an emergency" and "can do every day."

Will DLA claimants be better off with human beings who don't believe them, or computer programs who don't have a check box for , "Yes, BUT .."?

db

cyberbob

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Many people would say that seeing someone you love in pain (and being able to do nothing to help them) is far worst than being in pain yourself.

Well said. I watch my wife daily go through more pain than I could imagine with dignity and little complaint. Watching that can be heartbreaking all she worries about though is me and making sure I don't hurt myself caring for her.

Trialia

deeplyblue wrote: »

The ATOS software used for ESA examinations did not recognise these factors (I understand that it was going to be amended). It's based on the "Can Do" CAN reach above your head - tick. If you can do anything once a week, or on a good day, or only at great cost in pain or fatigue, then you CAN do it - if necessary seven and half hours a day, five days a week. Unless that system is changed radically, a lot of people are going to have to explain to appeals panels the difference between "could probably do in an emergency" and "can do every day."

So familiar!

I can reach above my head, but since my shoulders subluxate and dislocate when I do that, would the ATOS people take me to A&E afterwards? I doubt it... The trouble is, I think, that a lot of the people do not recognise the difference either, and so don't write it down as it actually is.

Breast_Cancer_Survivor

Trialia wrote: »

Is it a high pain threshold you have or a high pain tolerance? My tolerance is high - most people who look at me would not know I'm in constant pain unless I tell them! - but my threshold is artificially low, thanks to chronic fibromyalgia.

I can never get pregnant - would be endangering my life given my spinal damage - but I do wonder whether giving birth would be anything like the pain of having both hips and both shoulders grinding in and out of position for hours on end as they do during my hormone surges! I'm curious, honestly.

Oh, and on the subject of putting people on ignore... I have borderline high blood pressure, and I find I get far less migraines with half a dozen people on ignore than I did before I did that! Saves my sanity, what's left of it.

I can stand quite alot of pain compared to most people so probably high pain tolerance.

People who are autistic can be more or less sensitive to pain & medication.

I am however more sensitive to sound/light & can often hear things that other people can't.

Trialia

Breast_Cancer_Survivor wrote: »

I can stand quite alot of pain compared to most people so probably high pain tolerance.

People who are autistic can be more or less sensitive to pain & medication.

I am however more sensitive to sound/light & can often hear things that other people can't.

*raises hand* Same here - I'm mildly Aspie (yay for OCD and trich, not). I have auditory processing problems, but can hear sounds at levels most of my family can't, and I'm highly habituated to pain medication (mostly due to EDS/fibro, but also partly to AS) with a high tolerance, as I've said.

More little things that mount up, right?

Prinzessilein

I'm another hypersensitive person with ASD!

Last time I saw my specialist I couldn't concentrate until the radio playimng in an adjoining room was turned off - I could hear it (Mum and specialist were barely aware it was on!) and it was too loud for me to concentrate on my specialist!....And despite this I find speech difficult to process. I know the words are English (or one of the other languages I speak fluently). I could define each word accurately. But, I can't work out what they mean when put together!

I am also very sensitive to touch. I can't bear even clothing touching my skin on bad days (!) ....I have a couple of soft jersey items in an extra large size for the sake of 'decency' to wear around the house on these days, and don't go out.

I wear tinted glasses because I am sensitive to light.

ash4becks

Trialia wrote: »

*raises hand* Same here - I'm mildly Aspie (yay for OCD and trich, not). I have auditory processing problems, but can hear sounds at levels most of my family can't, and I'm highly habituated to pain medication (mostly due to EDS/fibro, but also partly to AS) with a high tolerance, as I've said.

More little things that mount up, right?

Prinzessilein's and BCS post aswell got me thinking the being able to hear things is something i have always have, i have the light sensitivity for sure , doc said pain threshold was low , sensitive to touch rights though somethings i just cant stand i live in hoddys and joggers unless iam felling ok then i will put jeans on i put this down to disbriacia OCD and dyslexia does that sound like ASD to you guys

krisskross

deeplyblue wrote: »

" Now in fact the screamer had severe rheumatoid arthritis, and it was probably having the arm or wrist pulled around, not having the needle inserted that had led the scream.
. I was talking a couple of years ago to someone who is a specialist in palliative care, who said something I'd heard before, but not from such a reliable source. Cancer pain is very bad, but modern medicine has managed to make real progress with pain alleviation for cancer. (Though the side effects are, I understand, sometimes pretty unpleasant themselves). But, my source said, they are still having real trouble controlling the pain from arthritis, which can be agonising.

And the lack of hope of pain relief is itself a perpetual grinding down of the spirit.

But to those who have not encountered it, arthritis is having slightly knarled joints, or old people complaining about their "poor old bones". Ask an inexperienced decision maker to judge a case where someone says that trying to get dressed is "very painful" and they may simply assume that the claimant is exaggerating for effect. So the claim gets turned down, and the claimant asks for it to be looked at again, and then maybe it goes to appeal. And somewhere along the line, the claim is dealt with by someone who has come across arthritis pain either for themselves, or in the life of someone close to them. And it is only then that the claim gets allowed.

My husband has very resistant rheumatoid arthritis and yes the pain is the worst symptom. Especially as he is no longer allowed anti inflammatory analgesics because his Hb keeps dropping and is only just above 10. He has had the colonoscopy and endoscopy but no bleeding point found. It is thought he may have a very slow bleed though.
Iron deficiency anaemia so probably not connected to the methotrexate he has injected each week. He also has high dose steroid infusions or steroids directly into his joints when the pain get too much for him.

A DAS ( Disease Activity Score) chart is used to track his disease and it is partly on his high scores on this that he has been accepted for anti TNF treatment.