savings whilst claiming

pink_phantom

because i have been following this thread for ages and it seems that no one can answer your questions because they are unanswerable. if new accounts were opened each year then there would have been some correspondance to her at some point so to plead ignorance does not seem a very wise thing to do. you seem to want a justifiable answer that no one can give.

dmg24

Hi Chel1234,

I have dipped in and out of this thread so accept my apologies if I have missed something. I just wanted to say I'm really sorry for some of the recent unhelpful comments on here.

Your situation is extremely complex, but I don't think it is hopeless. However it is essential that you receive all the information held by the DWP, and this seems to be the sticking point before you can proceed any further. If they are unwilling to give this information, I would get your MP involved. It is leaving you at a massive disadvantage, as in effect you don't know what you are appealing against.

My view on these boards is that, if you can't offer anything constructive, then don't write anything at all. It just detracts from the point of the post, and confuses things for those that are trying to help.

Am a bit busy at the mo, but will have a read through asap and see if I can offer any suggestions. Take care x

Bossyboots

I must admit that I can't find a post that wasn't constructive. The fact is, very little of this situation makes sense and the story changes course so often that it is difficult to unravel what has happened.

As far as it looks to me, this woman has either been unwise or taken advantage of. On the face of it, it does look as if she has technically breached the rules and although there may not be £16,000 there now, it looks as though there may have been at some point which they have picked up on. I don't think there is anything wrong with the answer supplied by the DWP. If they passed the papers to a collection department and don't have an electronic copy then they will need to get them back to review them. This is obviously going to take some days and they have confirmed they will activate an appeal if they still maintain their original figure was right.

Unfortunately, I think the young lady in question has been too trusting and has now been left to carry the can. pink_phantom is correct in my opinion. Unless they have calculated the figures incorrectly (and please check and re-check this as much as you can) arguing that the money was not hers is unlikely to wash with the DWP. It was in her name and there was movement on the account. Correspondence would have been sent in relation to the account. Far better to try to show that she did not understand what was going on to show that she wasn't complicit in a fraud, rather than to deny the money was there and/or hers, if they have got their figures right.

As far as the calculation goes, with my mum's CTB they were using double accounting because they were taking the opening balance of an account instead of the current balance, even though the dates of each were some years apart. While I had thought this was a stupidity exercised only in my local council's CTB department, maybe that is not the case and the DWP have in fact added the maturing figure to the figure of the new account when it is actually the same money.

chel1234_2

thanks for the information, i am concerned greatly that the dwp are going to now want income support back. I dont know how long back they will request this. I am disputing the figure of 16.000 and feel that they have just closed her case for income support. If they are 100% that there was over 16.000 and have the evidence to back this up it was a pointless exercise for them to ask her to provide details of the accounts that they wanted. This was provided but no response was given, i telephoned them and they just replied that thier wasnt enough information and that the case was passed to a desicion maker. I hope that my mp will help and hopefully today i will be able to contact him

chel1234_2

Hi everyone, i have finaly heard from the dwp and thier overpayment section, they are now requesting a payment of 15.600 pounds that they apatently state is oqing to them in income support. Does anyone know of how many years they can request money back? I have contacted several welfare rights organizations but they are not sure of this question. I am still disbuting the ammount they said was in accounts, they are failing to respond to our request even when put in writing. Hope someone out there may be able to shed some light on this messy situation.

Bossyboots

I can't imagine there is a limit on how far they can go back if they can prove fraudulent claiming for the period in question. Have you gone through the figures and put them into a spreadsheet for each year, showing the totals? In the first instance you need to use the highest figure in the accounts for the year as that is presumably what they have done. You will then need to check whether those figures ever drop below the threshold, entitling her to support for any period. I do think it is going to be up to you to prove to them the figures you believe are correct. Once they are satisfied they have the right figures, it is hard to get them to budge without written evidence of what you are saying.

Have they said you can appeal against this decision? If so, you are going to have to prove the figures as I have outlined for an appeal to have any merit. If you can pick out something they have done glaringly wrong then that will help but the leg work is going to be down to you.

One other option is to try to find a solicitor that does welfare benefits advice legal aid and take your daughter along to see them and they may be able to assist.

chel1234_2

thanks for the reply. I really dont think now that she will be able to see a solicitor as she have stopped her income support so they will probably only take her case if she is on that benefit, she has incapacity benefit.I know that the figures they have to come about the total ammount is wrong but if they supplied what they had and where they got the figures from maybe an accountable picture of whats going on would be made clear and thier error could be corrected, as it stands i dont see how if they can stop a claim and demand an overpayment. How can we apeal if we dont have the correct information from them. I am unclear of the guidelines about when they interview the person under suspicion of fraud and the other person with them is involved in thier allegation why they did not stop the interview, maybe they have erred in law.

Bossyboots

chel1234 wrote:

thanks for the reply. I really dont think now that she will be able to see a solicitor as she have stopped her income support so they will probably only take her case if she is on that benefit, she has incapacity benefit.I know that the figures they have to come about the total ammount is wrong but if they supplied what they had and where they got the figures from maybe an accountable picture of whats going on would be made clear and thier error could be corrected, as it stands i dont see how if they can stop a claim and demand an overpayment. How can we apeal if we dont have the correct information from them. I am unclear of the guidelines about when they interview the person under suspicion of fraud and the other person with them is involved in thier allegation why they did not stop the interview, maybe they have erred in law.

If they made an error in the interview, it will only prejudice any criminal proceedings they may have wanted to bring. It makes no difference to the issue of whether or not your daughter had too much savings.

Your daughter is entitled to see a welfare benefits adviser under the legal aid scheme even if she is not on benefits. She is still seeking advice on a benefit related matter and her income would almost undoubtedly still qualify her for this.

Can you not see from the figures where they have got differences to you. For instance, if you take away the total you have from the total they have, do you end up with a figure that matches anything in the accounts. This was how I discovered the error on my mum's as the discrepancy matched the starting figure in one of her old passbooks. If after doing this you still see discrepancies, then an appeal will need to be made. Hopefully someone will come along who knows how to do that. I have had a quick look but not found anything useful. If you appeal, they should send you the figures. It was getting these details when I appealed for my mum that proved my calculations that they had used the wrong figures as there in black and white was the mistake and this actually made it easier to force their hand into putting it right.

chel1234_2

thanks for that. I am just in a bit a haze for my daughter and whats going to happen. i Will phone a solicitor and seek thier advice and i think she will be able to get legal asistance.I think they just walk over people like myself that really havent the knowlege of the system. Her friend only stated that at the interview the officer just said thier was over 10,000. I have also conflicting advise about whether or not she should reapply for income support, we have stated this ball rolling but have had no response from them up to now

cattie

There is no limit on how far back the DWP can claim overpayments. Your daughter should receive a detailed breakdown of the dates & amounts overpaid over the years they now wish to clawback.

She can arrange with the benefit office to have a small amount, perhaps £5 week stopped from her benefits to repay the debt. A debt like this stays recoverable & if not repaid during the lifetime of the person it becomes payable from their estate if they have enough assets when they die.

The debt management department should contact her at some stage to ask how she wishes to make repayments, but this can take a good few weeks after you are officially notified of intention to recover overpayments.

Bank accounts & interest paid is how the DWP ascertain how much capital a person had in savings & investments at any one time. Details of interest paid is shared info from the tax office.