Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

James

aakayb wrote:

Problem with that is, the benefit of chip and pin is lost. Will they ever find a way that is truely secure?

The 'so called' benefit of the PIN is lost to the card issuer, retailer AND crook.

The benefit of the Chip remains.

Truely secure, never say never.

v-man

pfcbpfcb wrote:

My debit card has recently been cloned. 4 transactions of £200 were taken from cash tills in Scotland - I live in Kent. The bank says the card was cloned as I have not lost the card - it is always in my purse. Looking through my statements I noticed that a couple of weeks prior to the theft I had used my chip and pin card at a Shell garage. Obviously someone was able to access my card details and my pin number and create a debit card.

I also shred everything - with chip and pin this doesn't make any difference. I read on the internet that you can buy cloning machines for less than £100.

Nationwide Building Society have told me that it will take them at least 3 weeks to send out the forms that I need to complete in order to start trying to get my money back! Now is that fair!!!! They allowed my money to be stolen and yet I have to wait for them to send some forms out before I can start trying to get my money back!!!!

The majority of retailers, if not all keep a copy of your receipt but their copy has your complete card number and expiry date, all they don't get is the code at the back. nothing stopping them spying your pin or as they make the blank card they rewrite your signature their way.

James

Research from banking industry body Apacs, found that cash machine fraud during the first three months of 2006 totalled £21.4m - an increase of 54 per cent compared to 2005 figures.

bibbski

I was purchasing a new printer for work last week from a large PC high street company using my credit card. At the check out I presented my card and the checkout doris asked my for 'my postcode where the card is registered to?'. Do you have to tell them to complete the sale or are they just trying it on so theycan sent you a load of crap throught the post.

I now some company's use it as a extra check, like when i order a pizza over the phone, I've also heard of this happening when you buying a Telly of Digi box claiming they have to ask by law for the TV licencing.

Any info would be great.

Si

King_Of_Fools

bibbski wrote:

I was purchasing a new printer for work last week from a large PC high street company using my credit card. At the check out I presented my card and the checkout doris asked my for 'my postcode where the card is registered to?'. Do you have to tell them to complete the sale or are they just trying it on so theycan sent you a load of crap throught the post.

I now some company's use it as a extra check, like when i order a pizza over the phone, I've also heard of this happening when you buying a Telly of Digi box claiming they have to ask by law for the TV licencing.

Any info would be great.

If it is PC World or Currys they just want it so they can send you an extended warranty offer!

moggsy

bibbski wrote:

I was purchasing a new printer for work last week from a large PC high street company using my credit card. At the check out I presented my card and the checkout doris asked my for 'my postcode where the card is registered to?'. Do you have to tell them to complete the sale or are they just trying it on so theycan sent you a load of crap throught the post.

I now some company's use it as a extra check, like when i order a pizza over the phone, I've also heard of this happening when you buying a Telly of Digi box claiming they have to ask by law for the TV licencing.

Any info would be great.

Si

If they are just asking for your postcode then there is no way that they can send you any junk mail as they would also need the house number/name.

When you buy a TV or TV related equipment you DO have to give your name and address by law - it's to check that the household has a TV licence. From the TV Licensing website to traders:

'If you sell or rent TV receiving equipment, under The Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 (as amended) - you are required to notify us within 28 days of each transaction, providing full details of the purchaser or hirer. '

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/tvdealers.jsp

James

Today's Money Box revealed that only 1 in 4 ATMs have been updated to prevent skimming. Prof Anderson argues that even these ATMs are vulnerable to attack and CHIPs can be copied.

Moneybox clarifed that UK ATM operatives, unlike their American counterparts have no plans to tell victims or suspected victims that their cards have been compromised. IMHO anyone whose been victim of a disputed PIN based fraud should be receompenssed forthwith.

Money Box are looking for victims of skimming.

James

Claiming Back Fraudulent Transactions on A&L Account.

Cash Machine Fraud UP says Banks.

The video clip is worth a peak. One wonders why it is so difficult to claim back when the Card Industry can do little to prevent peoples PINs being captured.

moggsy

Chip and Pin is working:

‘Total fraudulent losses fell from £219.5m to £209.3m over the first six month of 2006, a decline APACS attributes to the introduction of chip and PIN.’

‘…fraudulent losses in shops decreased 43 per cent to £42.1m, following on from a 35 per cent fall the year before, a trend credited to the introduction of Chip and PIN as a alternative to signatures as a means to authorise card payments.’

Taken from The Register

James

The cost of C&P to implement = approx £1.3Billion.

ATM fraud up 37% - Crooks using stolen & cloned cards & PINs. Cloned cards acquired from places like the SHELL garages and ATMs themselves.

CNP Fraud (Internet/Phone/Mail Order/Fax up 5% - Not affected by Chip & PIN.

Counterfeit up 16% - Not surprising Only 1 in 4 ATMs in this country are tamper proof. (Source BBC)

The greatest decreases:

Mail non-receitp down -57% - Not surprising as 99% of C&P cards have now be distributed, but it still accounts for almost £10M worth of fraud.

Retailer (face-to-face) - 43% - Pre Chip & PIN, The greatest losses to retailers were through the use of counterfeit cards. Chips without doubt can be credited. But lost or stolen cards (CHIPPED), cards are still used in Shops without the person presenting the card ever being challenged. When a card issuer shouts, foul, you (the cardholder) must have been negligent with your PIN, you're in trouble. Not surprising as 1 in 4 cardhodlers divulge their PIN to a.n. other and a vast amount of cardholders use the same PIN for each card.

The questions are:

Is it safer for a cardholder to PIN or to Sign?

Was the £1.3Bn expenditure worth it?