Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

James

Another high-profile victim of PIN based fraud:

http://money.guardian.co.uk/scamsandfraud/story/0,13802,1543511,00.html

Please Martin or the press - when are members of the public going to be told the truth - A Chip & Signature Card is an option.

Detail_Merchant

Further to my earlier post about the £50 maximum liability for negligence with a credit card here I was interested to read an article in yesterday's Sunday Times here where a customer had kept their PIN written down in their diary.

A thief stole the card and diary and withdrew £500, but because of the Consumer Credit Act, the most the bank could hold the customer liable for was £50. As it happens they waived even the £50.

This could be worth knowing if you are unlucky enough to fall victim to such a crime and the bank try to call you negligent with your PIN.

James

I urge readers to of this topic to view:

http://www.chipandspin.co.uk/

It is a balanced, provides facts and is unfussed.

James

Sadly this is the sPIN being put out by a site like The Motley Fool:

"In the UK, it's possible to ask your card provider to ensure that you can continue to use cards with signatures but you don't necessarily have the option of using signatures abroad."

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/comment/2005/c050805b.htm?ref=foolwatch

This is very wrong indeed, lets hope a correction will be forthcoming.

Reaper

James wrote:

Another high-profile victim of PIN based fraud:

http://money.guardian.co.uk/scamsandfraud/story/0,13802,1543511,00.html

Please Martin or the press - when are members of the public going to be told the truth - A Chip & Signature Card is an option.

I don't read this thread very often hence my slow response.

I feel in your crusade against Chip & Pin you are twisting some facts to fit your views. The article you refer to here is about a DEBIT card and therefore nothing whatsoever to do with credit card chip & pins.

There is an important difference between the two. Banks can be difficult about refunding money stolen via a debit card if they think you are negligent. However, as DetailMerchant mentions in the above post, you will be refunded all money stolen from your credit card no matter how appallingly negligent you are (not something I agree with but that's another issue).

Therefore if the banks want to issue Chip & Pin then let them. You are fully protected if a thief uses it (to be accurate except for the first £50, but they are unlikely to ever make you pay it). Let them decide which option will result in the least fraud - after all they are going to pay for it.

James

Reaper,

Please have a read of https://www.chipandspin.co.uk - you may change your mind

James

"Crafty criminals apparently cracked the bank's computer systems - and nicked money from one of its automatic cashpoint machines."

http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=657943

I bet they still needed a valid PIN.

How could this have happened if the stolen card had been blocked?

student100

I'd like, if I may, to alter the topic of this thread from "James moans about Chip and PIN" back to it's original and more general topic of Chip and PIN discussion.

I've just returned from France where I have been working all summer - of course being a good MoneySaver I took a Nationwide credit card with me. I used the card to pay in several different shops, including an E. Leclerc hypermarket (several times), a Petit Casino supermarket, and a small independent clothes shop. Despite the fact that all the Chip and PIN bumph says that France use a different, incompatible Chip and PIN system, in each of these shops I actually did use Chip and PIN successfully, suggesting that at least the shops I went in to had upgraded to the new European Chip and PIN standard.

The staff in the Leclerc hypermarket seemed to be completely familiar with using British Chip and PIN cards and it worked with no trouble at all - the only minor gripe I had was that when the card was inserted in the terminal, it prompted to chose a language, and each time the sales assistant chose Francais rather than English, which meant I was prompted to enter my PIN in French (no big deal, it's easy enough even for someone that only speaks un petit peu de Francais to work out what the instructions mean). In the clothes shop, the sales assistant recognised the English writing on my card and tried swiping it through the terminal - which recognised that I had a Chip and PIN card and prompted her to insert it into the chip reader. She was surprised to see a British card work in this way but it did work. The guy in the Petit Casino inserted the card in the chip reader (as he would with any French card) and apart from asking him to select a language everything else worked as he (and I) expected.

So don't be surprised if, when using a Chip and PIN card in Europe, you are asked to enter your PIN just as at home.



And James, if you want something to discuss, how do you think the French shop assistant would cope with a Chip and Signature card?

lennard01

In todays (mondays) Daily Express their is an article arguing against Chip N Pin - Why my chip and pin is in the bin (pg 18) by Jonathan Maitland. Basically it is saying that the claims that chip n pin is fraud proof is rubbish, and that the writer does not trust it.

In it their is two points - the first I was not aware of :
"All shops have their own four-digit security number, which differs from your card's own PIN. This number overrides the system and automatically authorises payment, Increasingly criminals are finding ways of discovering this secret code, probably by bribing dishonest employees"
Is this true? And if so shouldn't an alert sound if the customer tries to enter this number - as it should only be entered by the cashier, presumably if their is a problem with the card reader? (and yes, I have thought that their may be the slight chance a person's PIN is the same as this security number, but that chance is extremely small, and it wouldn't need a loud alarm).

The second point concerns the receipt - some shops still show the full card number on the receipt. I know all my fellow MSE addicts will be careful to shred all receipts before disposing of them , but could we get some kind of campaign going to name and shame the big companies that do this, in order to pressure them to change their ways? Sorry if this has already been raised/actioned before! (and for drifting off topic!)


Len

Lady_K

I hate using my chip and pin cards, no matter what shop you go to you can be seen by other people, shop assistants, cameras etc. I just hope they get rid of them as soon as possible. I use Halifax and I don't think they do chip and signature do they and if they do would that be difficult to use abroad too?