Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

James

Chip & PIN could prove bad news for innocent victims:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/11/16/cmliz16.xml

TheNeil

But I'm Not Happy...

Not sure what good this'll do but I got the surprise of my life at the weekend while paying my credit card (after queuing for half an hour - Saturday so naturally 'quiet' and only two cashiers actually working). Printed on the usual bin fodder (the leaflets shoved in with the statement) was, in tiny print, a message stating that chip and pin will be compulsory from 14th Feb 2006. Now I understand the supposed benefits of the system but I've staunchly resisted switching but it seems that now I HAVE to use this new system

I'm not a technophobe or a pensioner who won't trust anything invented after 1958 (31 year computer programmer actually) but I don't want to switch as I don't believe the system offers enough benefits. So I phoned up the Halifax and Lloyds TSB (yes, I'm 'blessed' with 2 cards) and both gave the same response...albeit in different ways.

The Halifax were totally nasty and were of the attitude "well it's just how it is so you'll just have to get used to it", never addressing (or even asking) my concerns and doing nothing to re-assure me in the slightest. I even had to push them to reveal that fact that they CAN issue signature only cards in certain circumstances (I did my homework beforehand) but they wouldn't even consider it

Lloyds TSB were better but, even though I pretended to be dyslexic (purely in the interests of investigation you understand) they were pretty much of the same opinion. Although when I mentioned that I was dyslexic the woman put me on hold then came back and started talking to me as though I was a six year old, explaining where the numbers were and how they work - I'm supposed to be dyslexic, not an idiot. After being put on hold EIGHT times they sugegsted that I call back during the week (Monday-Friday, 9 'til 5) as they were only weekend staff and weren't sure. Gee, thanks

I realise that the banks can probably force me to use chip and pin but how many people are aware of this cut off date? Now initially I was concerned about some minor security issues but now I'm well and truly fuming at the way this is being done and the fact that, despite having had accounts with them for several years (ten in the case of Lloyds TSB) I'm being steamrollered into using this system that I don't trust and no a single person (in the banking world) seems to care

Anybody know of anything I can do or whether there's a signature only credit card available still?

James

Why don't you email https://www.choosingandusing.com with your concerns and ask them everything you can about chip and signature cards.

This is the site is run by the people who brought you Chip & PIN and who are also responsible for https://www.chipandpin.co.uk

Tell them you are aware of Chip & Signature but your card issuers are giving you incorrect and misinformation and not coming clean, becasue you have difficulty with numbers you want to choose and use a Chip and Signature card.

gunneradt

I had a problem with rbs cards and pins. I always use the same pin but because I had had a Nat West card for donkey's years when chip and pin launched on rbs credit cards it wouldnt let me use my pin. I refused to use another pin and eventually rbs agreed to send me chip and signature cards.

Norbert_Colon

I tried getting a chip and signature card replacement for my Co-op Bank debit card. They didn't give me the 'broken record' technique but one phone supervisor did suggest I was putting forward a conspiracy theory!

Since then I've paid cash where practical, by credit card where not, as at least with a credit card I can argue with them before I've paid for the mistakes instead of after.

James

Advice from the Cardwatch website:

Don’t use the same PIN for every card

http://www.cardwatch.org.uk/default.asp?sectionid=3&pageid=105

Stoozers get your Chip & Signature Cards now!

innovate

Can't find any record of this being posted before:

Check out the credit card prank if you think signatures are safe

James

I'ts been posted before but here are a few points:

If you scribble your signature down and it doesn't match the signature on your card - as long as fraud doesn't occur - no problem

If someone else forges your signature (before you report your card lost or stolen) then you can always challenge that signature and you won't get hit for the first £50.

If sales staff fail to check your signature then pull them up for it - it could be your card that's being used fraudulently.

On the other hand if they get hold of your card, or clone it and acquire your card and steal your PIN, then the first port of call with a stolen card and PIN will be either a shop or an ATM. If your card or cards are cloned card they will be looking for the nearest ATM.

Your wallet or purse is knicked and you use the same PIN for two or more cards. The latest cardwatch advice is "Don't use the same PIN for every card." I bet card issuers won't be to sympathetic when it comes to waivering the £50 liability fee or even worse the victim ends up paying the whole cost of the fraud.

TheNeil

As a bit of a follow up to my quest for a chip-and-signature card...

I didn't really want to use the dyslexia approach but I am undergoing asessment for adult autism so that's as good an excuse as any (I hate having to even mention it but needs must...). I phoned the Halifax twice more (explaining the situation and having to tell THEM their policy regarding the disabled and the fact that legislation exists requiring them to issue chip-and-signature cards) and was told that I'd be contacted by their 'assessment team' but, as no-one contacted me at all, I was a little surprised to receive a letter saying that, after reviewing my case, I'd been refused. In the meantime I'd also emailed a letter of complaint and got the usual 'thank you for your concern blah, blah, blah' reply.

I phoned them up again and demanded that they close my account. Now, miraculously they passed me through to their customer retention unit and a nice chap (I won't mention names) talked it through with me and tried to convince me to stay - offering to do everything that he could to get me the card I wanted (he certainly didn;t say that chip-and-signature cards couldn't be issued). He couldn't guarantee anything though so I closed the account anyway (he gave me his name and said to call back if I changed my mind)

I've also been onto Egg and they've issued me a chip-and-signature card - yay! Which is valid until February 14th - boo. I'm still pushing them so I'll have to see where that ends up...

I'm still convinced that chip-and-pin is no safer than signature cards and the whole point of the system is for the benefit of the bank (it shifts liability from the bank onto the retailer) rather than the customer. Added to this that chip-and-pin cards can also be used in ATMs and I'm of the opinion that it's far more open to abuse (and just because it's a chip-and-pin card means zip - it'll quite happily work in older ATMs which don't use chip-and-pin and rely solely on the good old magnetic strip).

Despite the banks' claims, chip-and-pin cards CAN be cloned (not easily but given time...) and there have been several cases of 'phantom' withdrawals/transactions. This is where the banks have the ultimate get out clause as they simply claim that you must have let know someone else know your PIN as their system is infallible. It's utter, utter rubbish. If it's so brilliant, why don't the banks themselves have chip-and-pin machines at their counters?

Sorry, I can feel the bile rising again

TheNeil

Success (or so it seems)!!!

Having been onto Egg about the chip-and-signature card they've quite happily said that, as my my new card is signature only, I can continue to use it AFTER 14th February - I just might find some shops getting awkward about accepting it

Moral of the story: If your bank's being awkward, phone up Egg, pretend you have a good reason for not wanting chip-and-pin, and they'll see you right