Kleeneeze or Betterware?

Honest_John_666

Maz wrote: »

Findel share price currently at 7.5

Doesn't sound good to me.

Yes its is - the Kleeneze sales are going backwards, they invested heavily in the TV advertsing which didn't work. I feel they've hit the wall & will continue to go backwards.

When Findel bought the remains of the EHR group they didn't want Kleeneze, their boat is the online firms.

Rumours are the eventually Kleeneze will go online only & therefore all these people earning Millions & Million of royalties will be gone overnight, the reps will all lose their jobs as well

Sales in Kleeneze went 15% backwards & are only showing a 4% increase this year, these figures are from Kleeneze themselves.

Its not good!!! :eek:

Regards
John

petestan

Honest_John_666 wrote: »

Yes its is - the Kleeneze sales are going backwards, they invested heavily in the TV advertsing which didn't work. I feel they've hit the wall & will continue to go backwards.

When Findel bought the remains of the EHR group they didn't want Kleeneze, their boat is the online firms.

Rumours are the eventually Kleeneze will go online only & therefore all these people earning Millions & Million of royalties will be gone overnight, the reps will all lose their jobs as well

Sales in Kleeneze went 15% backwards & are only showing a 4% increase this year, these figures are from Kleeneze themselves.

Its not good!!! :eek:

Regards
John

Hi john, with regards to the 1st comment, you can get a full credit for anything you are sending back via the ordering website as many times as you want during the period and then just send them back once a month, although I personally just sort it out once a month, plus all new distributors now get a £500, if I remember correctly, credit account straight away.
The rumours at the time, in the city anyway, were that they weren't interested in Kleeneze only the internet businesses but look what has happened now they have had a fire sale of most of them with iwoot to follow this year and they really only have kitbag and confetti now and kitbag makes most of it's money running football club shops. Express gifts has a website but is really 2 or 3 catalogue companies.

As for them putting Kleeneze online only, it won't work IMO, I have had a number of customers move out of my town but still live nearish enough for me to say I will still deliver to them and quite a few have said now the catalogue is online they will email me with their order, but they don't. I have my email address on my dayslips so customers can email me with orders and I do get an odd one every so often, perhaps one every couple of months if that, but I would have virtually no orders if I relied on that.

Kleeneze do NOT have our customers names and addresses unlike in the Utility networks, apart from ones whereby they have had to send cheques to perhaps and anyone who went on the holiday offer from last year, so they couldn't deal direct with the customer and cut us out if they wanted to and anyway a lot of customers only deal with Kleeneze due to the personal contact with their distributor, sending a catalogue once every couple of months through the post I don't think would work and you would have the delivery problems also as most parcel companies do not deliver in the evening when most people are in and they would have to have a minimum order value no orders for £1.50 like I get occasionally.
Personally I have no intention of ever giving them my customer details for that very reason, I was involved in one of the telecom companies (euphony) a long time ago now when they did exactly that so I know what they are like.
I think euphony did that twice, cheers, Pete.

Maz

Share price closed today at 6.91.

Still, a bit up from its low of 4.9 a few days ago but still a downward trend.

Findel going into administration?

petestan

Maz wrote: »

Share price closed today at 6.91.

Still, a bit up from its low of 4.9 a few days ago but still a downward trend.

Findel going into administration?

I am no expert on these things but if they owe the banks £344 million I would have thought they would give the new management team time to try and sort things before pulling the plug.

geordie_joe

petestan wrote: »

As for them putting Kleeneze online only, it won't work IMO,

I have to agree with this. I reckon most of the profit kleeneze make is from setup fees and charging distributors for everything they can think of. Very little of will come from customers buying products.

Honest_John_666

geordie_joe wrote: »

I have to agree with this. I reckon most of the profit kleeneze make is from setup fees and charging distributors for everything they can think of. Very little of will come from customers buying products.

Kleenezes sales is form products & all the costs.

I to think you're right they make as much money from starting people & selling the dream that they ever do from selling products

As a whole IMO ther world would be a btter place without them

IMO 90% of the people need shooting

9% seem honest guys just wanting tyo earn a living BUT focsuing on the dream

1% probablly way way less than 1% are rich

Regards
John

petestan

geordie_joe wrote: »

Is that how much they have earned, or how much they have sold?

And is Gavin's group the only group in Kleeneze?

That is how much product they have sold in 4 weeks so the TOP retailer has sold £8,661 they will earn around £1,818.81 at 21% retail profit plus they hit at least the 21% bonus level, (probably more if they have anyone in their team, the top bonus level is 7500 pts so they only need 130pts outside of their retail) so 21% bonus level (kleeneze has a points value for each product which is usually the retail price minus the vat) which is around 14% cash on top so £1,212.54. So in total from their personal retail that top retailer has earned at least £3,031.35 in 4 weeks.
Now obviously not everyone is willing to do that it takes a lot of effort and a lot more than just 50 catalogues but it shows what you can do.

There are other groups out of Gavin Scott's, Gillian Nicholson's and Chris and Wendy Mason Paul are the 2 biggest but I don't have any links to their team's retail as I am not in either of their team.

The Shepherd's are not the top retailers in Kleeneze though, that is Susan Coleman and Robert Holdford, I know this because they have won the trophy for being the top retailers every year for the last 6 years. Their turnover in period 7 was 12,259.58 pts (taken from the kleeneze ewb newsletter) I have no idea how much of that was personal retail but a hell of a lot of it was as up to the end of period 6 of this year (there are 13 periods of 4 weeks in a year) they have PERSONALLY retailed 61,222.79 pts.

geordie_joe

petestan wrote: »

That is how much product they have sold in 4 weeks so the TOP retailer has sold £8,661 they will earn around £1,818.81 at 21% retail profit plus they hit at least the 21% bonus level, (probably more if they have anyone in their team, the top bonus level is 7500 pts so they only need 130pts outside of their retail) so 21% bonus level (kleeneze has a points value for each product which is usually the retail price minus the vat) which is around 14% cash on top so £1,212.54. So in total from their personal retail that top retailer has earned at least £3,031.35 in 4 weeks.
Now obviously not everyone is willing to do that it takes a lot of effort and a lot more than just 50 catalogues but it shows what you can do.

There are other groups out of Gavin Scott's, Gillian Nicholson's and Chris and Wendy Mason Paul are the 2 biggest but I don't have any links to their team's retail as I am not in either of their team.

The Shepherd's are not the top retailers in Kleeneze though, that is Susan Coleman and Robert Holdford, I know this because they have won the trophy for being the top retailers every year for the last 6 years. Their turnover in period 7 was 12,259.58 pts (taken from the kleeneze ewb newsletter) I have no idea how much of that was personal retail but a hell of a lot of it was as up to the end of period 6 of this year (there are 13 periods of 4 weeks in a year) they have PERSONALLY retailed 61,222.79 pts.

OK, so lets do some maths.

The total points for that group, for 4 weeks, is 1,573,747.95

Assume it is an average week, and multiply it by 13 to get a yearly total

1,573,747.95 x 13 = 20,458,723.35

Then you said to multiply it by 1.175 to convert the points to pounds, so

20,458,723.35 x 1.175 = £24,038,999.94

Now there are at least 5 teams, according to you, and at least two of them make more money. So let's assume this is an average amount and multiply it by 5 teams

£24,038,999.94 x 5 = £120,194,999.68

So, £120,194,999.68 in sales per year, for just the five groups you mention.

I'm a bit stuck for one figure here, so can you (or anyone) remind me what Kleeneze's annual turnover is?

We also have to remember that the above figures are just sales, they don't include joining fees, charges for other things like catalogues, order forms, using web services, not using web services etc. The charges for these would add quite a bit to their annual turnover.

The figures are also just for the five groups you mention, not for any others.

petestan

I said 3 large teams that I know of and Gavin Scott's is the largest with the 3 largest earners in kleeneze, Bob Webb, Gavin Scott and Rob Forster.
Kleeneze turnover to April 2010 was £62.0m.
So using your maths 24,038,999.94 x 3 = £72,116,999.82 so that says to me that the other 2 groups are at least 5 million points less a year and looking at the ewb magazine Gillian Nicholson is on 790,337.72 pts for period 7 and Chris Mason Paul is on 646,209.10 pts for period 7, Gavin Scott's points for period 7 were 2,214,611.52 so he turns over 2.8 times GN and 3.4 times CMP, plus any others that are outside these 3 groups as I say I am not sure who is in who's team so if there are any more outside these groups they must be lot smaller than these 3.
So these two groups combined add up to 1,436,546.82 pts which is around 2/3rds of Gavin's group.
I an using period 7 figures rather than period 8 which I linked to above because I have these figures in front of me the other 2 groups periods end 2 weeks behind or in front of Gavin's.

Edit:
So if we just double your figure bearing in mind that at Xmas the sales go up a heck of a lot that makes 48,077,999.88 so that leaves according to your figures £14 million for buying catalogues, stock, etc.

Final edit:
Apparently according to the squidoo link it should be Freda Fenn not Gillian Nicholson but her figure are similar to Gillian Nicholson's.

OldGreyFox

petestan wrote: »

Below is link to the top retailers JUST in Gavin Scott's group, that is PERSONAL retail NOT including your team in a 4 week period. The numbers are in points times it by 1.175 to get the actual pounds, so please don't tell me no one sell anything in Kleeneze. I am way down the list on 2168.8 pts which is £2,548 in a 4 week period. You get NO points for buying catalogues and other sales aids, products only count.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Publishing this link to Gavins Blog is against site rules as it leads to a recruiting site etc.

Publishing some distributors full names etc etc here without their express permission doesnt seem to be a good idea either.

Is it true that some distributors generate additional income from their teams, by charging to go to meetings ,and by the selling of sales aids ,motivational material etc etc.