HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

andywicks

CitySlicker wrote: »

This gets even better. I have just received a follow-up to last night's conversation, I won't go into all the details as it is mostly just a Vodafone reaffirmation of their position, but finishes:

Vodafone wont be providing you with a Deadlock letter as the change is due to a Commercial decision and it falls outside of Otelos terms of reference.

In other words, Vodafone are now arguing this document (PDF) - http://www.otelo.org.uk/downloads/Otelo_TOR-20June2006_AB.pdf - says I cannot complain to Otelo and I am assuming they are using clause 11.2(h) to withhold my right to complain.

Surely the statement about commercial judgement, below, is around the terms and conditions for services provided to a customer and are included in new Terms and Conditions, rather than changes to existing Terms and Conditions. Vodafone are not allowed to make detrimental changes to the Terms and Conditions, regardless of whether it is a commercial decision.

OTELO_Terms_of_Reference wrote:

11.2. The Ombudsman shall not accept a complaint about a matter: ... to the extent that the complaint relates to an Otelo Member’s commercial judgment in determining whether and, if so, on what terms a service and/or product is to be provide

Andy

danielz000

CitySlicker wrote: »

This gets even better. I have just received a follow-up to last night's conversation, I won't go into all the details as it is mostly just a Vodafone reaffirmation of their position, but finishes:

Vodafone wont be providing you with a Deadlock letter as the change is due to a Commercial decision and it falls outside of Otelos terms of reference.

In other words, Vodafone are now arguing this document (PDF) - http://www.otelo.org.uk/downloads/Otelo_TOR-20June2006_AB.pdf - says I cannot complain to Otelo and I am assuming they are using clause 11.2(h) to withhold my right to complain.

Well, after Otelo come Ofcom, and they can't stop that. Log a complaint.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

andywicks wrote: »

Surely the statement about commercial judgement, below, is around the terms and conditions for services provided to a customer and are included in new Terms and Conditions, rather than changes to existing Terms and Conditions. Vodafone are not allowed to make detrimental changes to the Terms and Conditions, regardless of whether it is a commercial decision.



Andy

Either way, I interpret this as a new tact - they no longer care about if this counts as a contractual change or not. The more important thing to them is they are now saying they are not bothered, they can do what they like and say it is a commercial decision so we cannot go to the ombudsman.

Technically I think you are correct about Vodafone being vexatious with that clause. It states about the service 'to be' provided, which I interpret as service about to commence, not an existing service. I am going to speak with a barrister about this over the weekend to get her view on this.

I have emailed Otelo to get their take on this, and I intend following it up with Ofcom. I have also emailed bitterwallet to publicise this development and I am now drawing up technical journalist lists to get some national mainstream publicity. All this can still be avoided, Vodafone just has to drop me a line, but I am not holding my breath so I think I will see how things pan out by Friday then I will start more action.

bym007

CitySlicker wrote: »

Either way, I interpret this as a new tact - they no longer care about if this counts as a contractual change or not. The more important thing to them is they are now saying they are not bothered, they can do what they like and say it is a commercial decision so we cannot go to the ombudsman.

Technically I think you are correct about Vodafone being vexatious with that clause. It states about the service 'to be' provided, which I interpret as service about to commence, not an existing service. I am going to speak with a barrister about this over the weekend to get her view on this.

I have emailed Otelo to get their take on this, and I intend following it up with Ofcom. I have also emailed bitterwallet to publicise this development and I am now drawing up technical journalist lists to get some national mainstream publicity. All this can still be avoided, Vodafone just has to drop me a line, but I am not holding my breath so I think I will see how things pan out by Friday then I will start more action.

So what does it mean for the rest of us "mere mortals" ? :eek:

nickmack

Be interesting to see if the murmers of VF upping the limit to 1Gb for Desire as well are realised. This would be the sensible thing to do.

I've done almost everything over WiFi and kept my GPRS usage to a absolute minimum and my data is just over 25Mb in 2 days.

N20Y1D

nickmack wrote: »

Be interesting to see if the murmers of VF upping the limit to 1Gb for Desire as well are realised. This would be the sensible thing to do.

I've done almost everything over WiFi and kept my GPRS usage to a absolute minimum and my data is just over 25Mb in 2 days.

They cant just increase it like that for desire users, what about those with other android handsets, N900's etc they are all in the same boat.




Meanwhile another little snippet of advice from a helpfull vodafone employee:

Jon_Vodafone, on 18 January 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:
Hi Dodgy69,

If you have anything other than our Unlimited Internet bundle (500MB Fair Usage) on your number, then there is out-of-bundle charging for exceeding the stated limits.
Only bundles that list their usage as a "Fair Usage Policy" will not charge you for going over. I trust that clarifies things for you

Jon

eForum Team

mr_fishbulb

N20Y1D wrote: »

They cant just increase it like that for desire users, what about those with other android handsets, N900's etc they are all in the same boat.

Exactly. I've got a legend. It runs the same version of android and I can install the same applications as the Desire. It has the same potential to use 3G. Why wouldn't it be for my phone too?

nickmack

N20Y1D wrote: »

They cant just increase it like that for desire users, what about those with other android handsets, N900's etc they are all in the same boat.

Agreed, it should be upped for all Android devices.

I've just spoken to a VF Corporate guy who's currently in our office and he's aware of two changes in relation to the Desire/FUP that are to be announced next week.

He said unfortunately like customers, they too are kept in the dark about exactly what these are.

bym007

nickmack wrote: »

Agreed, it should be upped for all Android devices.

I've just spoken to a VF Corporate guy who's currently in our office and he's aware of two changes in relation to the Desire/FUP that are to be announced next week.

He said unfortunately like customers, they too are kept in the dark about exactly what these are.

I believe the limits should be same for all phones, be it Android, Mac OS or Windows Mobile based. At the end of day, almost every phone coming out today has the same social networking and other stuff!

tsurumaru

Spoke to Retentions today, had a good rant LOL. The person I spoke to seemed to be very aware of the issue of VF's data charges. Started with the "97% of customers never go over the 500mb limit" script but I easily countered that with enquiring how many of the 3% who did were Android handset users? He immediately switched tact to explaining how VF were "doubling the limit to 1Gb" for all their users to "make sure no-one ever goes over their limit" but he didn't know about T-Mobile's FUP being 3Gb or that Orange were scrapping their 750mb FUP to bring them in line with T-Mob.

In the end he couldn't really do anything but offer the 1Gb deal and as I don't really want to have to be constantly checking my usage looks like I'll be going over to T-Mob after 12 years with VF.