This is everything that is wrong with the UK

paybacktime2008

Well I was pretty clear in my mind which camp this thread was about. But hey I'm new!

sKiTz-0

agree with paybacktime 100%, and Sue, surely you can see the difference between somebody like yourself and somebody from the OPs news story. I certainly can.

Anyway, I work, very hard, and have struggled my whole working life and am much worse off than the family in the OP.

Who do i vote for to stop this madness? Because as far as I can see there is nobody to vote for. Most people will be voting Labour or Conservative, and votes for any other party are IMO a wasted vote. I have never voted before (I'm 26) but I have never felt so strongly about an election as this.

Labour allowing scumbags to sit on their backsides while we all pay for them for years, Conservatives wanting to give the same afforementioned scumbags 10% of their social housing value as a deposit for them to buy a house when they move on!!!! And a wasted vote for Lib Dem, who will actually make me better off by raising the threshold for taxable earnings to 10k as opposed to the 5k or thereabouts it is at now.

I do not want the Tories in, I think I mostly want to vote Lib Dem to give them a chance, although part of me feels that a) Gordon should be voted in so he can clean up his own mess rather than somebody else cleaning it up for him and b) if I vote Lib Dem, this is one less vote for Labour, and therefore, in this 2 horse race we are in, Tories are more likely to get in.

I might as well vote for Monster Raving Looney Party (if they are still going) I feel like I will be worse off whoever gets in, which is why I have never voted before. However, one of my friends has talked to me about voter apathy since the last election, and mentioned that if you don't vote, your vote automatically goes to the party in power? Is this true? And who should I vote for? As I see it, there is no future for this country at all.

SingleSue

Oh I can see the difference but can others?

From what I have seen, until a point is made about particular circumstances, it is ALL on benefits being given the scum label.

It is only after that point is made, that some people start to back track wildly.....just my observation from being on these boards for 2 years.

The people in the article make me sick too, not just because of what they are doing but because of the knee jerk reactions it causes in others against those who have to rely on benefits.

treliac

SingleSue wrote: »

Oh I can see the difference but can others?

From what I have seen, until a point is made about particular circumstances, it is ALL on benefits being given the scum label.

Yes, others can see the difference quite clearly Sue. This keeps on coming up as an issue and it's a subject that must be discussed. It's very important to the future of this country. However, no-one ever directs it in the direction of yourself or anyone else in a similar situation as you.

treliac

Conrad wrote: »

I will be voting labour, but the benefits scam does sicken me. Part of my own business incluides a lettings agency and I can tell you all that almost every applicant is on benefits - usually a rent of £800 - £1200 per month has been pre agreed as the local housing allowance. The vast majority of them can work and are quite simply bone idle.

Typicaly they will be single with several kids and several benefits on top of the LHA.

Many here tell thier docs they suffer with panick attacks (the latest ruse here) which is difficult for a busy doc to test for so they just play along. These same 'sufferers' have no problem with all night clubbing though!

Why do people like shirley williams and shami chakravarty always say the abusers are a tiny minority - they are utterly out of touch on this.

Cat695 wrote: »

Then you only have yourself to blame.....and you are no longer entitled to an opinion on this matter.....seeing as your happy to vote in the very Government that has created this greed/need.

I think that what Conrad is telling us, Cat, is that he will vote Labour and that he is personally doing very well out of them.

sKiTz-0

So how do we stop it then? I can see from the other thread how hard you have had to work Sue, and like myself have had 16/18 hour days with 2 jobs, just to get myself out of a downward spiral of debt. My only debt now is my £8,000 student loan. Which I fully intend to pay off early should I find a company who are able to pay me a decent enough wage to actually live off, and maybe increase it at least with inflation every year. Which just seems to be absolutely impossible at the moment. You have also had the extra strain of children to take care of and provide for, which I don't have. So I have the utmost respect for you. I think all posters on this thread would agree with me in saying that you, and others in similar circumstances to yours are not being held in anywhere near the same light as the family in the original article.

paybacktime2008

sKiTz-0 wrote: »

So how do we stop it then? I can see from the other thread how hard you have had to work Sue, and like myself have had 16/18 hour days with 2 jobs, just to get myself out of a downward spiral of debt. My only debt now is my £8,000 student loan. Which I fully intend to pay off early should I find a company who are able to pay me a decent enough wage to actually live off, and maybe increase it at least with inflation every year. Which just seems to be absolutely impossible at the moment. You have also had the extra strain of children to take care of and provide for, which I don't have. So I have the utmost respect for you. I think all posters on this thread would agree with me in saying that you, and others in similar circumstances to yours are not being held in anywhere near the same light as the family in the original article.

If you have another child while on benefits you get no extra benefit for that child, nor does that child or future child be considered in housing decisions. You also won't get the extra element of child tax credit for that child nor will you get the maternity grant. Better get in quick as a baby boom is on the way when Income Support cut off goes down to age 7.

treliac

paybacktime2008 wrote: »

If you have another child while on benefits you get no extra benefit for that child, nor does that child or future child be considered in housing decisions. You also won't get the extra element of child tax credit for that child nor will you get the maternity grant. Better get in quick as a baby boom is on the way when Income Support cut off goes down to age 7.

We're all focusing on the financial implications here, which are immense and, as everyone seems to agree, do really have to be addressed. A system akin to 'human trafficking', I think continual childbearing for benefits could be compared with. Since 'claimant' as a career title has flourished under Labour, I suspect they aren't the party to do it though.

However, more should perhaps be said about the human misery side... children not wanted for anything more than the money and ever cushier lifestyle they bring their parents. The future repercussions for this country are even more frightening than we can already see, imo.

These damaged children grow up into damaged adults who perpetuate the cycle ever increasingly. It will only become worse and worse until the damage that has occurred in the past few decades starts to be reversed. It's going to take a long time to correct - look how long the slide downwards has been going on now - and we haven't even started to sort out a way of steering things in a better direction... a society where it pays to work and actually rewards everyone who is prepared to work with a better life than if they choose to do nothing.

..........................

SingleSue

treliac wrote: »

Yes, others can see the difference quite clearly Sue. This keeps on coming up as an issue and it's a subject that must be discussed. It's very important to the future of this country. However, no-one ever directs it in the direction of yourself or anyone else in a similar situation as you.

I agree it needs to be discussed but that discussion would be nice without the language, the assumptions and the general almost witch hunt like nature that is seen from some.

I know it was not personally directed at me, my earlier reaction was possibly an over reaction (ok maybe no possibly about it :rotfl:) and I apologise for that...bit run ragged these last couple of weeks with the children on school holidays and a nightmare run through to my TMA next week because of the school holidays.

Makes me a little bit hyper sensitive.

Davesnave

treliac wrote: »

We're all focusing on the financial implications here, which are immense and, as everyone seems to agree, do really have to be addressed. A system akin to 'human trafficking', I think continual childbearing for benefits could be compared with. Since 'claimant' as a career title has flourished under Labour, I suspect they aren't the party to do it though.

However, more should perhaps be said about the human misery side... children not wanted for anything more than the money and ever cushier lifestyle they bring their parents. The future repercussions for this country are even more frightening than we can already see, imo.

These damaged children grow up into damaged adults who perpetuate the cycle ever increasingly. It will only become worse and worse until the damage that has occurred in the past few decades starts to be reversed. It's going to take a long time to correct - look how long the slide downwards has been going on now - and we haven't even started to sort out a way of steering things in a better direction... a society where it pays to work and actually rewards everyone who is prepared to work with a better life than if they choose to do nothing.

..........................

Post of the week!

I haven't involved myself in this thread, nor will I from here onwards, but I've worked with kids for 33 years and these are my worries too.

The implications for our future as a nation are serious, and for the individuals concerned, who had no choice, they are extremely sad. The State, possibly through genuine good intentions, has unwittingly fostered a kind of child abuse, which is now busily perpetuating itself.

The money may, or may not continue to flow, and personally I have my doubts, but this can only end one way; in tears.