Weezl and friends Phase 2 -giving it a whirl for Shirl! Testing meal plan for a month

weezl74

artybear wrote: »

Would it be possible for you to explain this a bit more?

I'll give it a go arty!

health warning: I recognise that the below view is controversial, and I do not intend to hurt anyone!

For me personally, when I think about how I imagine Bob and shirley's circumstances, I do not want her to have the non-negotiables she has.

I think they are legitimate because she has them, and she must be respected. But at the level of what is ultimately base-line right for her, I do not want her to have them.

There are some non-negotiables which don't fall into this category. But for me, the 3 we have chosen to focus on are not those right (in my view) and legitimate ones. I hoped in some way, that the planners and living then might highlight this to shirley.

give a shirl a fish:feed for a day
give shirl fishing lessons: feed for life
give shirl the new realisation that her family will not die if she gives them dried or frozen fish: well, then you're laughing!

This is purely an opinion, and I hope it doesn't upset anyone

artybear

weezl74 wrote: »

I'll give it a go arty!

health warning: I recognise that the below view is controversial, and I do not intend to hurt anyone!

For me personally, when I think about how I imagine Bob and shirley's circumstances, I do not want her to have the non-negotiables she has.

I think they are legitimate because she has them, and she must be respected. But at the level of what is ultimately base-line right for her, I do not want her to have them.

There are some non-negotiables which don't fall into this category. But for me, the 3 we have chosen to focus on are not those right (in my view) and legitimate ones. I hoped in some way, that the planners and living then might highlight this to shirley.

give a shirl a fish:feed for a day
give shirl fishing lessons: feed for life
give shirl the new realisation that her family will not die if she gives them dried or frozen fish: well, then you're laughing!

This is purely an opinion, and I hope it doesn't upset anyone

Ah I see, I think I agreed with you on this when people were saying their non0negotiable was free range eggs and I thought that if they were on the bread line that would go straight out of the window.

So you are hoping that the month will change Shirley's mindset and she will see frozen veg is ok etc....?

weezl74

artybear wrote: »

Ah I see, I think I agreed with you on this when people were saying their non0negotiable was free range eggs and I thought that if they were on the bread line that would go straight out of the window.

So you are hoping that the month will change Shirley's mindset and she will see frozen veg is ok etc....?

well, originally I thought it might challenge the non-negotiables.

But now I realise it won't and can't. (and no recipe website could)

edit: I realise this will prompt lots of 'don't worry weezl, not your responsibility, you can lead a horse to water...':)

but....

weezl74

....imagine you had invented a drug which helped cure cancer (sorry emotive and strong example).

But because of people's (erroneous) beliefs about food they wouldn't take it.

You could think, 'ah well but it's not my responsibility, you can lead a horse to water....'

or you could spend the rest of your life standing on roof tops yellin 'HORSES! you're dying of thirst! There's a well over here! Come on, you can do it, please...'

I'm in the latter category. This is not necessarily good or right, but it is the way I am built and at my age I don't think it's going to change. Although I hope I will always shout it in a winning rather than alienating way.:)

Allegra

Oh, much as I'm one of those who is always on about the horses and water, I never meant you should give up and not shout about water's availability ! If I was of that mindset, I don't think I'd feel that being on this team is worth my time and effort

When I say that I just mean that it's important not to get upset and feel you've failed if despite all that horses still refuse to drink.

weezl74

is it perhaps that people think we have a while to make the month 2 shirley so we don't need to decide yet, because kitty isn't finished?

If this is the case please do say because it will add more time on for me if I don't know the outcome til kitty is finished.

While I am opening all 120 pages of html there are some things I can be putting in place now IYSWIM which would add on lots of time later

weezl74

Allegra wrote: »

Oh, much as I'm one of those who is always on about the horses and water, I never meant you should give up and not shout about water's availability ! If I was of that mindset, I don't think I'd feel that being on this team is worth my time and effort

When I say that I just mean that it's important not to get upset and feel you've failed if despite all that horses still refuse to drink.

not as touche-ish as this might sound lovely allegra, but likewise you can't lead a weezl to water and make her bask in the sweet smell of success

She'll have gone off to find some more shirleys I rather suspect!

*whinnny, stamp foot, swish tail*

System

weezl74 wrote: »

well, originally I thought it might challenge the non-negotiables.

But now I realise it won't and can't. (and no recipe website could)

edit: I realise this will prompt lots of 'don't worry weezl, not your responsibility, you can lead a horse to water...':)

but....

Weezl, can I be blunt? If you want to persuade people to drop what you see as disposable ground rules, then it seems unwise to present them with more plans specifically designed to accommodate those ground rules -- doing so merely enforces their validity and emphasises that they are affordable even at subsistence level. It's like bribing children to brush their teeth by giving them a sweetie after they have done it.

If you really want to persuade people to drop these prejudices, and if that is a specific goal of this project (rather than just an ideological wish/hope on the sidelines), then surely your next step (after rolling out the vegan/veggie plan that is near completion) is to present what you truly believe these people should be eating, at whatever price point that works out to be. Ignore their so-called non-negotiables, and show them the way. The Weezl Way.

To use the fishing parallel, you have given a fishing net to the people who need it, and you have gone some way towards teaching them how to use it. But you believe that fishing net to be flawed, and that a better net is both available and more easily affordable. Why not present it, and give people the chance to see an alternative approach, now that they have been encouraged by your softly-softly entry-level plans which cater for their non-negotiables?

Sorry -- I know the last thing you need is still more options for the next step, but if your true ambition for the project is to encourage people to adopt a different way of approaching their menus, then I think you should present that ideal to them. Otherwise, how are they to know that it exists?

Allegra

And another oh If the consideration for your time and effort was taken out of the equation, and it wasn't a case of either/or, I'd say that both nutritional info and Month 2 would be a valuable addition to the site, but I still stand by the opinion that nutritional info is more urgent/important.

And I think that Month 2 with exactly same ingredients is a brilliant idea in terms of teaching Shirl how to fish, as it creates a mindset where you don't look at, say, a packet of bacon, and think - all I can have now is bacon butties, or as I'm really poor, bacon and onion pudding. It creates a mindset where every ingredient is a maze of opportunities, and that, I think, is what we're after.

But for me, your time and effort are a huge consideration, which is why I have to come over all mother hen and say - please don't run yourself to the ground, or miss out on your kids' early days, or turn Mr Weezl into a stranger because of Shirl's welfare. Not that I think you would - but I still have to say it

Allegra

weezl74 wrote: »

not as touche-ish as this might sound lovely allegra, but likewise you can't lead a weezl to water and make her bask in the sweet smell of success

She'll have gone off to find some more shirleys I rather suspect!

*whinnny, stamp foot, swish tail*

I know I won't get upset when she doesn't tho', I'll just shrug and try to help