Flexible new deal stages and signing off to reclaim

donnajunkie

speedfreek1000 wrote: »

As soon as you're referred to the FND you are theirs for the 12 month duration of it.

There is no reset to stage or anything else until the full 12 months from start has finished.

If you sign on again within this 12 month period you will automatically be passed straight back to the FND for pick up.

That's the way I understand it any way.

If you get sanctioned you would first get a letter from the FND telling you that you were being put forward for sanction to a DWP Decision Maker. You would then receive a letter from the DWP asking for your response to the allegation. Then a decision.

2 weeks 1/st
4 weeks 2nd
26 weeks variable (i.e until you comply) there after.

i think i remember seeing something about this. i think it is possible to get a job at the start that lasts 11 months and then get refered back to do the final month.

donnajunkie

Parva wrote: »

Sorry, I should've got to this sooner but work got in the way. I'm afraid that you're wrong on this completely, certainly for West Yorkshire (which includes a small town called Leeds). Your advice is generally very good but I think that you should research more before you making sweeping statements on something that you obviously know little about. I bow to your knowledge on the other options that exist but please don't profess to know how the 'old new deal' works.

As soon as you approach the 18 month mark you are summoned to a meeting with your new personal advisor. The first thing he / she does is to book you onto what is called a 'Gateway to work' course. They aim to get you on this ASAP but I would expect 4 weeks maximum and in the meantime you will likely have to see your advisor weekly (bus fares are refunded for the week that you wasn't due to sign on).

This course lasts for 2 weeks and is basically an intensive job searching period where you attend from 9am - 4.30pm (or some minor variant) and they will help you compile a CV, set a target amount of applications that you must do in a day and have team-building exercises.

At no point in this two week course are you put onto work-experience. Once this two week course has passed you then get put onto the 13 week course. This is where you may end up on work experience!

Just wanted to clear that up.

i do know what i am talking about but of course i am still not an expert. in my experience the 2 week gateway to work course is only for a small number of people, mostly under 25's. i have never ever been refered onto gateway to work and i know many people who have been on the old new deal who also have never had to do the gate way to work course. it did exist here as i have met people who have done it. they always seemed to either be under 25 or total headbangers. everything else you describe is pretty much as i said, although in more detail.

laser

coupes wrote: »

21st century slavery. If people are being forced to work for benefits then that is wrong. Perhaps the government feel minimum wage doesnt apply to someone on benefits. But technically i suppose they arent employed by anyone so they dont have proper rights. Its a sad situation.

If the unemployed don't even have the same legal rights as the employed then they are truly an underclass. If work is "Mandatory" then you should at least receive a minimum wage. It's irrelevent whether the Government feel they have a technical cop-out or not, they should be seen to be FAIR at all times. Isn't fairness one of Gordon Brown's election themes?

donnajunkie

laser wrote: »

Anybody out there actually work for JCP?

last night I was told by somebody who works for JCP that there's a magazine JCP employees can get called "Touch Base". Apparently there's been a lot of discussion about the legality of forcing jobseekers to work for less than minimum wage to repay their benefits or as in the case of those that don't get benefits, being forced to work for nothing just to be able to keep signing on.

Certain JCP staff are very unhappy with this and think that it's only a matter of time before there's a major court case or a frontline JCP employee is seriously injured/killed!!

the old new deal has existed for 10 years and no-one has challenged that. there is hope that the work for your benefit scheme due to come in this year will be challenged. i cant see it though. i have posted the following link somewhere recently i dont know if it was in this thread but it wont hurt to post it again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBxO02lo5TA
its interesting that there seems to be fair minded jobcentre staff. i think the staff at the fnd providers are at the most risk to violence because when you get sanctioned you dont get kicked off the course. so you could have someone getting sanctioned by their advisor who they will then have to see again soon after.

donnajunkie

coupes wrote: »

Someone has told me that there would be a gap on my N.I. contributions and i would need to pay for this myself if i were to sign off. But if i can get some part time work of up to 16 hours then the jobcentre will still pay for the NI. (Class 3?)

Does anyone know how much exactly i would need to pay each week for N.I.? or how much the jobcentre pay? Would my employer automatically deduct this?

Also what happens if there are gaps on your record for N.I. contributions that you dont pay? Does it affect your state pension in future etc? thanks

if you work upto 16 hours you still sign on and still have to do fnd.

MissMoneypenny

laser wrote: »

If the unemployed don't even have the same legal rights as the employed then they are truly an underclass. If work is "Mandatory" then you should at least receive a minimum wage. It's irrelevent whether the Government feel they have a technical cop-out or not, they should be seen to be FAIR at all times. Isn't fairness one of Gordon Brown's election themes?

Why don't all of you that have reached stage 4, just claim to be stressed/depressed/bad back, and get a sickness payment benefit instead of JSA? That way you won't have to work for the benefits, just like many others don't.

donnajunkie

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Why don't all of you that have reached stage 4, just claim to be stressed/depressed/bad back, and get a sickness payment benefit instead of JSA? That way you won't have to work for the benefits, just like many others don't.

i really do want a job i am happy with but i would be seriously tempted to do what you suggest. i have read so many horror stories of genuinely sick people being moved onto jsa that it puts me off. while personally i can live a pretty much normal life i do have epilepsy which in my opinion is a good enough reason but when i discuss this many people disagree. nobody at the job centre has ever said you should not be on jsa and no-one on these courses has ever said you should not be here. of course if i ever do have a seizure while on one of these courses and injure myself in a way that is directly related to being there, i will sue.

laser

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Why don't all of you that have reached stage 4, just claim to be stressed/depressed/bad back, and get a sickness payment benefit instead of JSA? That way you won't have to work for the benefits, just like many others don't.

I don't get JSA or any other benefit. For me it's not about avoiding work, I am actively seeking work and I do some voluntary work. It's about FND forcing me to do more than 16 hours work which might invalidate my mortgage PPI, my only lifeline and something I've paid into for over 10years.

Apparently, I don't qualify for any benefits as my wife earns over £16K/annum but she doesn't earn enough to keep the mortgage and everything else going.

MissMoneypenny

laser wrote: »

Anybody out there actually work for JCP?

last night I was told by somebody who works for JCP that there's a magazine JCP employees can get called "Touch Base". Apparently there's been a lot of discussion about the legality of forcing jobseekers to work for less than minimum wage to repay their benefits or as in the case of those that don't get benefits, being forced to work for nothing just to be able to keep signing on.

Certain JCP staff are very unhappy with this and think that it's only a matter of time before there's a major court case or a frontline JCP employee is seriously injured/killed!!

When you put it that way, it does seem a very strange system. Why should some benefit claiments have to work for less than the minimum wage for their benefits while others don't have to work for their benefits at all. Yes, child benefits and tax credits are benefits too.

Perhpas it's time that everyone has to work for their benefits, even if it is filling envelopes at home? Althought I still think that job seekers should get the first six months without working as they need to be putting their time into searching for work. After that, they join every other benefit claiment and do some sort of work. Those who claim the most money in benefits, would have to work the longest hours. If the government is saying it is ok for them to pay less than the minimum wage, then that would soon encourage people off benefits and into work.

MissMoneypenny

laser wrote: »

I don't get JSA or any other benefit. For me it's not about avoiding work, I am actively seeking work and I do some voluntary work. It's about FND forcing me to do more than 16 hours work which might invalidate my mortgage PPI, my only lifeline and something I've paid into for over 10years.

Apparently, I don't qualify for any benefits as my wife earns over £16K/annum but she doesn't earn enough to keep the mortgage and everything else going.

That's what is so screwed up about these state handouts now. Because you are looking for work, you don't get help. Those that don't want to look for work much, get money given to them if they claim to be sick or have children they don't want to pay for themselves.

Can't you just get a doctor to say you are stressed, so that you can claim some sickness payment? You could still job hunt.