I'm Fuming - Comet sells "Extended Warranty" to disabled 90-some y.o.

marleyboy

cybergibbons wrote: »

You actually don't understand the figures you are posting do you?



An estimate of the number of illegal immigrants in this country.

If you want to compare this to the number of legal migrants, the number in the last census was 4,900,000.

By estimates there are less illegal immigrants than legal. If you can dispute this, please do.

.

I can easily dispute this on the grounds that you are only qouting figures of "known illegal immigrants", completely omitting those who remain "anonymous", that you think they have all crawled out of the underground to be counted is laughable.

The estimates are comparing Known legal immigrants with known "caught" illegal immigrants, lets say more than 30% of illegal immigrants are caught every day either entering or within the UK, this means you have missed out the 70% that have slipped through the net "day to day", and I am being over generous on 30%, (just 3 out of 10, caught per day).

90% of caught illegal immigrants will claim asylum, will do whatever it takes to stay, those granted asylum are entitled to benefits, housing, NHS. Those labelled "asylum seekers" still not granted asylum, are still entitled to claim benefits up until or unless their asylum is denied, those denied asylum are asked to leave, (most just go back into hiding), watch "UK Border Patrol" for evidence of that kind of evidence.

So your figures are seriously flawed, its not that I do not understand your bizarre analogies, its that I disagree with them because you have failed to take all the other factors into consideration.

• 9 November 2009 Chinese takeaway not so happy
  
  Three illegal immigrants have been caught working in a Peterborough takeaway by the UK Border Agency as part of an ongoing crackdown on rogue employers.
• 9 November 2009 Redditch illegal worker jailed
  
  A failed asylum seeker from Smethwick has been jailed after being caught illegally working and fraudulently claiming benefits by the UK Border Agency.
• Noodle bar caught employing five illegal workers
  
  A Cambridge noodle bar is facing a potential £50,000 fine after it was caught employing five illegal workers.
• 4 November 2009 Four illegal workers caught in Bedford
  
  Two Bedford eateries are facing the potential of substantial fines after being caught employing illegal workers.
• 28 October 2009 Romanian child trafficker jailed
  
  A Romanian man has been jailed for trafficking a child into the United Kingdom to work in brothels in Birmingham.
• Redditch illegal worker jailed
  
  A failed asylum seeker has been jailed for 12 months after being caught illegally working and fraudulently claiming benefits by UK Border Agency officers.
• 27 October 2009 Bogus visitors stopped at border
  
  A man from the Ivory Coast who told UK Border Agency officers that he was due to preach at a Birmingham church has been stopped from entering the United Kingdom.
• 23 October 2009 Kirkby illegal immigrants deported
  
  Three illegal workers caught in Kirkby in Ashfield by UK Border Agency officers have been removed back to Malaysia, their home country.
• 22 October 2009 Newark illegal immigrants caught in Currys
  
  Ten illegal immigrants have been caught working in Newark.
• Twenty one illegal immigrants to be removed fom the UK following raids in Thetford
  
  The UK Border Agency is making arrangements for the removal of 21 illegal immigrants in the wake of an operation in Thetford on Tuesday 20 October 2009.

I have highlighted the ones claiming benefits for you.

Although these are just a few days that you have failed to add into your equations, now all you need to do, is to count the annual day to days from here http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-and-updates/?page=5&area=MidlandsandEastofEngland Then search for ALL those not yet discovered by the Agency, to give you a more accurate figure in just one year, to compare with your legal "immigration" figures.

stugib

marleyboy wrote: »

So your figures are seriously flawed, its not that I do not understand your bizarre analogies, its that I disagree with them because you have failed to take all the other factors into consideration.

marleyboy, to help the rest of us out, why don't you plainly and simply state the total number of illegal immigrants and total number of legal immigrants you estimate there currently are. I can't see anywhere in the stats you've posted that say the total number of legal immigrants currently in the UK.

dfh

waqasahmed wrote: »

I said it was a fuel. I didnt say there werent any before. The Iraqi people didnt want Saddam, nor intl intervention(la saddam, la amreeka were on some of the protests) meaning no saddam no America

I didnt say its an excuse, but you can not say there arent any white terrorists

Why is it that some people cannot resist playing the race card?

marleyboy

cybergibbons wrote: »

"I think this is a fact". You know that means that what you are saying is an opinion, and not a fact?

Seems literacy is a weak point along with numeracy.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

Of course if you dont believe we are over crowded - try popping to the City, I can assure you the photo below was not an audition for a group photograph

Britain's population is rising at a speed unprecedented in history, official figures revealed yesterday.

It will pass the milestone of 70million - the point Immigration Minister Phil Woolas promised would never happen - in 20 years.


The Office for National Statistics said that by 2033 there will be ten million more people in the country than now. More than two thirds of the increase, seven million, will be either migrants or the children of migrants, its report said.

stugib

dfh wrote: »

Why is it that some people cannot resist playing the race card?

You've been playing the ignorant idiot card this whole thread to be fair.

Though with your last few posts I'm now convinced your on a wind up.

dfh

stugib wrote: »

You've been playing the ignorant idiot card this whole thread to be fair.

Though with your last few posts I'm now convinced your on a wind up.

I know an immigrant family who have told me that EACH person in their family received a grant of 100000 the moment they landed in the UK.Each of them got the keys to an 18 bed mansion,a BMW and a brand new mobile phone.These facts have been verified by the Daily Mail.

stugib

dfh wrote: »

I know an immigrant family who have told me that EACH person in their family received a grant of 100000 the moment they landed in the UK.Each of them got the keys to an 18 bed mansion,a BMW and a brand new mobile phone.These facts have been verified by the Daily Mail.

Well done, had everyone going, including me, for a good few pages.

marleyboy

stugib wrote: »

marleyboy, to help the rest of us out, why don't you plainly and simply state the total number of illegal immigrants and total number of legal immigrants you estimate there currently are. I can't see anywhere in the stats you've posted that say the total number of legal immigrants currently in the UK.

I thought I had in my 1st post, but will do my best for you.

Annual population growth = natural increase (births minus deaths) + net migration, and migration also affects the number of births. Increasing life expectancy affects the number of deaths each year and later child-bearing and childlessness affect the number of births - these subcomponents are discussed on other sections of this website. ONS statistics are frequently retrospectively revised.


*Ipsos-Mori poll, August 2006
Retrospective revisions: UK population figures are often revised retrospectively over a period of several years - for example, those for mid-1995 to mid-2003 were 'smoothed' following the April 2001 Census. Population counting methods are known to have been inaccurate, and on 23 May 2008 the House of Commons Treasury Committee published its report Counting the Population, confirming flaws in official migration counting methods and suggesting ways of improving overall population counting . ONS Release of 2006 migration figures. Some figures may not correspond because of rounding or different statistical measuring methods. See also ONS Why is the UK population growing?
Sources: Natural increase (births minus deaths) from: Releases and Health Statistics Quarterly, ONS; General Register for Scotland, Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (N.I. births are defined as live births to resident mothers). Other sources: Population figures from mid-1995 to mid-2003 from Table 1.6, p58, Population Trends 121, ONS, Autumn 2005. The latest (Mid-2006 based) UK Principal Population Projection was published by the Government Actuary's Department on 23 October 2007. Some births and deaths occur within the UK to people not 'usually resident' in the UK. Births have exceeded deaths in every year since 1901 except 1976. Illegal immigration cannot be fully counted. UK Population Millions 1971-1995 are taken from ONS figures, Table D6900, Population Trends 112. Census figures for the early 19th century are estimates, since registration of births in England and Wales did not begin until 1837. 1Migration figures were revised upwards by the Office of National Statistics in June 2003. Official (November 2002) population projections by the Government Actuary's Department were based on continued net inward migration of 100,000 a year, a figure now acknowledged to be a significant underestimate. GAD's mid-2006 based principal projection (October 2007) assumes a net inward flow of 190,000. ONS Revised net immigration figures include asylum seekers but do not include illegal immigrants. For further details see Office of National Statistics. 2 These (retrospectively) revised population estimates were published on 9 September 2004 (for mid-2001 and mid-2002) and 7 October 2004 (for mid-1992 to mid-2000), following the local authority population studies which followed the Census in 2001. These revisions replace all earlier versions. 5 Census results - the Census 1801 figure excludes Northern Ireland. The figure for 1750 is an estimate, for England and Wales only. The United Kingdom incorporates Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland) and Northern Ireland. Statistics for constituent parts of the UK are available from the Office of National Statistics.

25 February 2010
Quarterly statistics covering immigration and asylum were published by the Home Office today.
These statistics include asylum applications, total removals for those illegally in the UK and migration from eastern Europe for the period October to December 2009.
Figures show that applications for asylum have dropped in the fourth quarter of 2009 to 4,765 - a 30 per cent reduction compared to the same quarter in 2008, and the lowest level since the second quarter of 1992.
Decisions on asylum cases have also risen 36 per cent compared to the same quarter in 2008, with the grant rate for asylum falling to 13 per cent.
Applications from eastern Europeans to work in the UK under the Worker Registration Scheme fell to 28,495 in Q4 2009, compared to 30,600 in Q4 2008 and 52,765 in Q4 2007.


The total number of removals and voluntary departures from the UK has decreased slightly from 67,980 in 2008 to 64,750 in 2009 - reflecting the fall in asylum intake.
Figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), published earlier today, also show that immigration from the 'A8' accession countries of the European Union has fallen, and that long-term immigration to the UK remains stable at 518,000 in the year to June 2009 compared to 531,000 in the year to June 2008.

I will next look for a total immigration for 2009 of both legal and "known" illegal immigrants for you, I am not sure where to find the maximum population limit in the Uk alone, but will dig for it.

stugib

marleyboy wrote: »

I thought I had in my 1st post, but will do my best for you.

Well that doesn't exactly match my definition of plainly and simply!

Seeing as this seemed to start from challenging the assertion that a high percentage of immigrants were illegal, we need the totals to see if that's true. I'm still only seeing changes to the total, over various different timeframes.

Can you just fill in:
Total number of current immigrants in the UK that are here illegaly =
Total number of current immigrants in the UK that are here legaly =

Then we can get a percentage.

marleyboy

stugib wrote: »

Well that doesn't exactly match my definition of plainly and simply!

Seeing as this seemed to start from challenging the assertion that a high percentage of immigrants were illegal, we need the totals to see if that's true. I'm still only seeing changes to the total, over various different timeframes.

Can you just fill in:
Total number of current immigrants in the UK that are here illegaly =
Total number of current immigrants in the UK that are here legaly =

Then we can get a percentage.

In answer to the first question, as I have already indicated, the Government admit that it cannot give an accurate figure of how many illegal immigrants are in the country,

The government said it was simply impossible to provide a meaningful figure on illegal immigration because people who were here illegally went to great lengths to conceal their existence from the authorities.

Before the 2005 election Tony Blair said that no such official figure existed. But weeks afterwards, the Home Office released a survey that gave a range of between 310,000 and 570,000. Those figures were based on the 2001 census.



Both the government and independent academics admit that immigration — legal and illegal — has mushroomed since then. Last year the LSE updated those figures by including population movement to 2007. It said the number of failed asylum seekers had since risen by 219,000, while an estimated 50,000 more foreign citizens had overstayed their visas.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7107598.ece

Or to coin it differently..........Why dont you tell me what it is?

This might help in answering your second question..............

Previous amnesties in the UK
7. In recent years there have been three amnesties in Britain [3], all of which applied to failed asylum seekers rather than to those who had entered illegally or overstayed their visas. In 1993/4 the Conservative Government granted "Exceptional Leave to Remain (ELR)" to 14,785 applicants involving 32,000 adults.[4] ELR has now been replaced by Humanitarian Protection and Discretionary Leave. Humanitarian Protection is granted when the asylum applicant does not qualify for refugee status under the terms of the UNCR but does qualify under the rather wider provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights. Discretionary Leave cases, on the other hand, are cases where the applicant does not qualify as a refugee under either convention. In practice, those granted either form of leave are almost invariably granted settlement eventually so that its grant can be regarded as, effectively, an amnesty. This amnesty was not revealed to the public at the time but will have become well known to the immigrant community and their lawyers.

8. In 1999/2000, the Labour Government granted Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) to 21,000 applicants involving 29,200 people altogether, under what was described as a "backlog clearance exercise". ILR is, effectively, settlement.

9. On 24 October 2003 the Government announced that ILR would be granted to those families which had sought asylum in the UK before 2 October 2000, had children before that date and who had experienced delays in the system. Those who had committed a criminal offence or lodged multiple asylum applications were excluded. The Government appears to have concluded that these applicants would have had grounds for appeal against removal on human rights grounds. They claimed that the amnesty would save taxpayers support costs and legal costs. Announcing the measure, Mr Blunkett said that it would involve 15,000 families but it was not known exactly how many adults and children would be covered [5].

10. The numbers involved turn out to be much larger. 53,435 cases were identified for consideration as at 31 March 2005 [6] . By the end of 2005, 70,135 applicants and dependants had been granted indefinite leave to remain (settlement) with 20,000 cases still to be decided [7].

"My opinion" is based on the "facts" probably better explained here........http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefingPaper/document/131