Rail Penalty Fare Problem!

fluffycheeseball

Sorry I wasn't clear. The letter was addressed to the Parents or guardians of <daughters name>

geordieracer

Well it takes a while to get all the info out of people on here but at least you have done so.I am surprised they have waived the admin fee though..Their loss.

yorkie2

MichaelCole wrote: »

On the 3rd July I lost my wallet before boarding a train on my way home from school, my wallet contained my train pass, and money etc in it and therefore had a problem when the train conductor came to inspect my ticket. As I didn’t have my train pass or any money to pay for the train fare, I got issue an unpaid fare notice in which I had to put down my details.

You got an unpaid fare notice for a Penalty Fare?

Having no money on you can result in an MG11, so it could have been worse!

MichaelCole wrote: »

It meant I had to pay my fare of the journey within 10 days otherwise I get billed 15 pound by the revenue protection people.

Actually, if you appeal it within that period, then you don't get the £15 admin fee charged at this stage. Make sure you copy your appeal to the Train Operating Company (TOC) concerned.

MichaelCole wrote: »

The next day I was fortunate to receive my wallet back with my train pass in it and everything, with the unpaid fare notice I contested this, as I felt there was no way I’m paying for a journey as I have already bought a pass for. I went up to the ticket office in Canterbury East and explained the situation and said I had to ring up Revenue Protection in Portsmouth. Since then another letter saying it’s risen to ₤17.50

Risen to £17.50? But you told us earlier you got a Penalty Fare?

A Penalty Fare is £20 or twice the single fare to the next station (whichever is the greatest) PLUS, if you wish to remain on the train beyond the next station, the full single fare from that station to your destination.

It sounds like you did NOT get a penalty fare to me!

MichaelCole wrote: »

and if I don’t pay it, basically they will take action. I’m now sending a letter with a scan of my train pass explaining the situation but I’m worried on a number of occasions

1. Worried that bailiffs may come round regardless if I send the letter or not
2. It will be a nightmare trying to cancel this penalty notice as well as the administration fee from Revenue protection.

Advice appreciated…

Thanks :beer:

If you refuse to pay it, you may be prosecuted for fare evasion. If you are found guilty, this may result in a 3-figure fine, and a criminal record. In the current jobs market, that could make it difficult to get a decent job. The offence would always appear on an enhanced CRB check so if you went to work in a school, hospital etc then it would be disclosed to your potential employer indefinitely. For a standard CRB check it would not appear after a certain number of years.

If you are considering not paying, do NOT seek any further advice here and IMMEDIATELY seek legal advice.

Edit: After posting this I realise this thread is a very old thread that has been bumped! However other people in this situation are finding these threads, and therefore the above advice still stands for anyone who searches and finds this thread in future. As I said above, seek proper legal advice if you are considering not paying a Penalty Fare or an Unpaid Fare Notice.

geordieracer

proper advice yorkie but her problem was a while ago. They have a habit of ressurecting old threads here

yorkie2

geordieracer wrote: »

proper advice yorkie but her problem was a while ago. They have a habit of ressurecting old threads here

Yep, I realise that now, but people are probably searching the web and finding these threads, so the advice will still be relevant to people in future.

If anyone gets a PF/UPFN my advice is, as soon as you get home if possible, draft up a response, get it checked by a suitable person, and send a reply the instant they contact you, with a copy to the Train Operating Company (TOC) and a copy to Passenger Focus (ie, 3 copies of the same letter), if they reject the appeal, then seek legal advice if you are considering not paying.

geordieracer

I get all that Yorkie, but some people... lol

Stigy

yorkie2 wrote: »

You got an unpaid fare notice for a Penalty Fare?

Having no money on you can result in an MG11, so it could have been worse!

Actually, if you appeal it within that period, then you don't get the £15 admin fee charged at this stage. Make sure you copy your appeal to the Train Operating Company (TOC) concerned.

Risen to £17.50? But you told us earlier you got a Penalty Fare?

A Penalty Fare is £20 or twice the single fare to the next station (whichever is the greatest) PLUS, if you wish to remain on the train beyond the next station, the full single fare from that station to your destination.

It sounds like you did NOT get a penalty fare to me!

If you refuse to pay it, you may be prosecuted for fare evasion. If you are found guilty, this may result in a 3-figure fine, and a criminal record. In the current jobs market, that could make it difficult to get a decent job. The offence would always appear on an enhanced CRB check so if you went to work in a school, hospital etc then it would be disclosed to your potential employer indefinitely. For a standard CRB check it would not appear after a certain number of years.

If you are considering not paying, do NOT seek any further advice here and IMMEDIATELY seek legal advice.

Edit: After posting this I realise this thread is a very old thread that has been bumped! However other people in this situation are finding these threads, and therefore the above advice still stands for anyone who searches and finds this thread in future. As I said above, seek proper legal advice if you are considering not paying a Penalty Fare or an Unpaid Fare Notice.

Fare Evasion would be hard pushed to prove, as unless no money was paid for the initial fare itself, then the only intent, is not paying a Penalty Fare. These cases are more than likely prosecuted under the byelaws (usually 18.1).

Bear in mind that fare evasion is recordable (5.3(a) Regulation of Railway Act 1889), and if found guilty of this there's also the added bonus of being known on the Police National Computer, if the TOC communicates with the Police.

Edit: I've just read the thread more thoroughly, and I see that the OP didn't have any money to pay for the fare, hence the UFN (not Penalty Fare). In this case I guess a 5.3(a) RRA offence could possibly be proved, but given that the OP was coming home from school (thus being under 18-years of age I'm assuming), this would more than likely involve youth courts etc, which TOCs don't like doing unless the offender is a persistant one! I would imagine that is why the UFN was issued in the first place instead of an MG11 being submitted, or at the least a Penalty Fare. Bear in mind to the OP and others (although I appreciate this thread is very old now), that even if you produce a ticket at a later date, the offence has already been committed, as soon as you made your journey and couldn't produce one. Some company's allows season ticket holders a bit of grace, but generally speaking, if you can't produce a ticket there and then, you're bang to rights.

Livingthedream

yorkie2 wrote: »

If anyone gets a PF/UPFN my advice is, as soon as you get home if possible, draft up a response, get it checked by a suitable person, and send a reply the instant they contact you, with a copy to the Train Operating Company (TOC) and a copy to Passenger Focus (ie, 3 copies of the same letter), if they reject the appeal, then seek legal advice if you are considering not paying.

Good advice for the majority of people but in the case of fluffycheeseball and other parents/guardians whose teenage kids decide to take a free trip on a train and get gripped, then it isn't.

As most teenagers will hide this from their parents/guardians hoping it goes away, by the time us parents/guardians get involved the Train Company has added an admin fee and the appeal time has passed.

I don't know the answer to this problem, but I think a policy change is needed, as in if the person involved is proved to be under 18 then a letter is automatically sent to the parents/guardians.

Chris_The_Ninja_Pirate

Continuing the theme of feeling aggrieved, and hoping to get some advice from those learned in these things.

I was commuting from London Paddington the other day when the inspectors requested to see my ticket. I have an annual ticket, which I had used to get through the barriers at Paddington, but I couldn't find it when they wanted to see it. Having searched frantically for a while whilst suffering the definite feeling of, "oh yeah", from the inspector I simply couldn't find it and ended up paying a Penalty Fare on the train. When I got home I found my season ticket.

I was wondering whether it is possible to appeal the Penalty Fare and more specifically whether because I passed through a barrier at Paddington any record of my season ticket being used is stored, and hence whether I can prove I must have had my ticket before boarding the train?

FYI, the ticket is a paper ticket with magnetic stripe NOT on an Oyster card.

CTNP

Jeff_Bridges_hair

Chris_The_Ninja_Pirate wrote: »

Continuing the theme of feeling aggrieved, and hoping to get some advice from those learned in these things.

I was commuting from London Paddington the other day when the inspectors requested to see my ticket. I have an annual ticket, which I had used to get through the barriers at Paddington, but I couldn't find it when they wanted to see it. Having searched frantically for a while whilst suffering the definite feeling of, "oh yeah", from the inspector I simply couldn't find it and ended up paying a Penalty Fare on the train. When I got home I found my season ticket.

I was wondering whether it is possible to appeal the Penalty Fare and more specifically whether because I passed through a barrier at Paddington any record of my season ticket being used is stored, and hence whether I can prove I must have had my ticket before boarding the train?

FYI, the ticket is a paper ticket with magnetic stripe NOT on an Oyster card.

CTNP

they will be able to tell if its been used - go to Paddington and ask them to run it through their ticket machines and ask for a print out. Use this and a copy of your season ticket to appeal the PF.