Rail Penalty Fare Problem!

MichaelCole

On the 3rd July I lost my wallet before boarding a train on my way home from school, my wallet contained my train pass, and money etc in it and therefore had a problem when the train conductor came to inspect my ticket. As I didn’t have my train pass or any money to pay for the train fare, I got issue an unpaid fare notice in which I had to put down my details. It meant I had to pay my fare of the journey within 10 days otherwise I get billed 15 pound by the revenue protection people. The next day I was fortunate to receive my wallet back with my train pass in it and everything, with the unpaid fare notice I contested this, as I felt there was no way I’m paying for a journey as I have already bought a pass for. I went up to the ticket office in Canterbury East and explained the situation and said I had to ring up Revenue Protection in Portsmouth. Since then another letter saying it’s risen to ₤17.50 and if I don’t pay it, basically they will take action. I’m now sending a letter with a scan of my train pass explaining the situation but I’m worried on a number of occasions

1. Worried that bailiffs may come round regardless if I send the letter or not
2. It will be a nightmare trying to cancel this penalty notice as well as the administration fee from Revenue protection.

Advice appreciated…

Thanks :beer:

Astaroth

I dont know about where you are but certainly here the requirement is that you have a valid ticket or pass with you so irrespective of you having a travel card or such if it isnt with you it doesnt count.

Bailiffs are appointed by the courts and so it would have to go to court and be ruled against you and then they can partition for bailiffs to be involved.

To be honest, these things are just easiest to pay up and hit yourself for being silly and losing/ forgetting your pass.

MichaelCole

Astaroth wrote:

I dont know about where you are but certainly here the requirement is that you have a valid ticket or pass with you so irrespective of you having a travel card or such if it isnt with you it doesnt count.

Bailiffs are appointed by the courts and so it would have to go to court and be ruled against you and then they can partition for bailiffs to be involved.

To be honest, these things are just easiest to pay up and hit yourself for being silly and losing/ forgetting your pass.

I know it was silly, but I'm hoping to try get the penalty fare noticed cancelled due to the fact that I already had a pass that would have covered me for that day. Seeing as I've got that pass back I was hoping to cancel the penalty fare notice.

mobilegossip

You need to phone Revenue Protection Support Services for advice.
P.O. Box 89, Portsmouth, PO1 1EG
Tel: 023 8072 8950
Fax: 023 8072 8904

If you dont get anywhere with them you can appeal against the penalty fare within 21 days of issue to.
Independent Penalty Fares Appeals Service
P.O. Box 14697, London, SE1 8ZJ
Appeals can only be dealt with in writing or online.

Does it not give you info of how to appeal on back of penalty fare notice.

Mark7799

Check the terms and conditions of your pass - there may be something in there saying that the pass must be produced on demand by a ticket inspector of whomever rightfully requests it to be valid. If there is it's doubtful you've got a leg to stand on.

MichaelCole

Mark7799 wrote:

Check the terms and conditions of your pass - there may be something in there saying that the pass must be produced on demand by a ticket inspector of whomever rightfully requests it to be valid. If there is it's doubtful you've got a leg to stand on.

On the back it says

Travel on Train Company 's is subject to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and to the conditions and to the conditions of carriage of other operators on whoses services this ticket is valid.

chrisxr2

Yes it is unfortunate that you had your wallet stolen, but imagine how often the train conductor heres that. What you are essentially saying is that if you had left it at home you should still not get a penalty fare as you had the pass. I am sure the law states you must have your pass with you. Just take the hit and put it down to experience.

matrix999

Hi Michaelcole,

I'm an On-Train Conductor. I've never had to issue a passenger with an unpaid fare notice as we don't have penalty fares in operation where i work. However, we do take passengers details should they fail to show a ticket, fail to pay for a ticket and if they don't or refuse to provide their name and address details they commit an arrestable offense under section 5 of the regulation of railways act.

My advice to you is to contact the number given by mobilegossip and also send a letter to the train companies customer relations department with a photocopy of your valid train pass and copy of the unpaid fare notice.

HTH

FARE-COP

Doing a Google search for something else, I spotted this old message and thought it important to add a little note.

I have been employed in this particular field for 30 years and I well understand how confusing the legal position can seem to the travelling public at times

Looking at the postings above, the important thing to remember is not to confuse an Unpaid Fare Notice (UFN) with a Penalty Fare Notice (PFN)

With a PFN a traveller has 21 days to pay or appeal in writing. If the matter is not resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both parties or, if the traveller believes that he/she can show evidence that he/she was unfairly treated or treated not within the Penalty Fares (Railways) Rules, then they can refer the matter to The Independent Penalty Fares Appeals Service. (IPFAS)

A UFN is a different matter. The passenger should write to the Customer Relations Department of the Rail Company concerned and any dispute will be dealt with there.

It must be noted that some of what others have said is absolutely correct.

When on a train (or the platforms too in many cases) where ticket pre-purchase facilities were available before travelling, any person who does not have a valid ticket available to show on demand does commit a strict liability offence against Railway Byelaws.

'I left it at home' is not a defence and the cancellation of liability in any report is entirely at the discretion of the Rail Company concerned.

Hope that helps someone.

chuckley

u coulda had a case had u told the station once ud realised you had lost ur wallet, as they MAY have helped you.

just boarding regardless shows that ur just a regular fare dodger.

hemophobic

i got a £20 fine once and because I didn't buy a ticket but I never paid and they said they were going to take further action against me but I still didn't pay then nothing happened after that. This was a few years ago.