When you marry a widower ...

lostinrates

paddy's_mum wrote: »

I can't express how disappointed and upset I am by some of the responses to this thread. As much as I defend free speech and the right of others to hold a different viewpoint, some of this feels like a deliberate misinterpretation of the information given.

For heaven's sake, just point to the bit where a single word I said could be interpreted that I had thrown out, willynilly, anything that belonged to the first wife without regard, respect or consent? The son had absolutely free rein, for six years, to sort out, preserve, keep, store, archive - whatever word you care to use - his late mother's possessions. He did not one jot except to take the valuable items. The rest - and I'll repeat that there were sheds full of junk - was just ignored and left to rot for years. "Precious"? What sane person objects to the disposal of 29 woodwormed hammers or a crate of obsolete Avon catalogues? Those things only became important when their disposal became a stick to beat me with!

I've only one question really. Let's imagine that my original post had read like this:-

* * *
Ever since his father first asked me out, 7 years ago, my bone idle step-son has been behaving hatefully towards both me and his over indulgent father. Once we married and I was preparing to move into my husband's house, the son was clearly furious that he had to get a job and support himself. For the six years before that, he had been treating their home like a hotel, never lifting a finger and relying on his father to suport him from the proceeds of the sale of the former matrimonial home. He was very happy for that to be sold as he was given a brand new car out of it. He has no friends, doesn't wash too often and his teeth are green with neglect.

He's just been forced to tell us that by working only part-time for the past four years, he has run up in excess of £10k in debt and his foolish father is now running around frantically trying to raise that money to save his son from his creditors and won't listen when I say that it is madness to risk the roof over our heads.

I've tried so hard to forge an amicable relationship with the 40 year old son but everything we do is wrong in his eyes. He seems incapable of giving credit where it is due, just harps on about minor glitches from the past, such as how stupid we were to waste so much money replacing the rusting original Crittal windows with modern double glazing and that only idiots would change the 35 year old storage heaters for an up to date central heating system. He seems quite happy for me to keep on footing bills from my own money to repair or maintain the house provided I want no say in how that money is spent.

I'm getting fed-up with being treated like a piece of dog dirt on his shoe when I know that I don't deserve it. Should I keep trying or should I just accept that nothing will ever overcome his chip on the shoulder at how unfairly (he thinks) life has treated him?

* * *

Every last word I have written is the truth. Now tell me who is the sensitive one, deserving of a bit of compassion and kindness and dare I suggest it .. forgiveness? Respect!? This man doesn't understand the concept and I'm tired of being punished for it.

Errata - thank you for your last post. Spot on, and I appreciate it.

I'm so sorry you feel so upset.

I posted simply because our experience is from the other side of the fence, and IMO, neither dh and his siblings NOR their new step mother and father is wholly in the right or the wrong...and in fact, I think very few situations exist where one person wholly is and the other party isn't.

I'm sure venting here is theraputic, and I'm also sure nothing you did (I in fact presumed it was about a friend of yours not you...) but I don't see all the replies not totally in support of your position as being insensitive, some are merely expressing a differnt opinion from a different experience.

It does sound like at 40 your step son is behaving like a bit of a plonker, but I think, from one side of the row, its impossible to say its greed, or selfishness, or grief wholly...in fact, I think its probably likely its a combination of concern over belongings, grief and a large part being a dog in the manger. But he almost certainly is not heartless, nor totally and solely motivated by greed.

I do hope you find some resolve. I have a feeling, from our own situation in any case, firmness from your husband both with his son and with you about where lines are to be drawn, and a clear will and reassurance that the son will not be cut out (did his mother leave a will dealing with chattels?) might help resolve this.

pusscat

Paddys Mum,

My last post was to explain a bit about how the step son may feel - this one is to try and help you come to a solution as just seeing it from the step sons side is not going to get the problem solved!

I see quite a few people suggesting you just tell the son to get lost and forget about him (to paraphrase).

I think that this is not the best thing to do, for 2 reasons.

1) It is asking your husband to choose between you and his son. There is no guarantee he would pick you (sorry, that sounds awful I know!). It is a terrible place to put anyone in and I am not sure a marriage could surive it.

2) Even if he does pick you, then it will give your step son more ammunition to see you as the one who "stole" his Dad and won't let him and his Dad have a relationship.

I know I could cause absolute havoc in my Dads marriage if I played that game - I have chosen not to, but it has taken some self control at times.

So - assuming you wan to stay married to your husband and he wants to have a relationship with his son, you are ALL going to have to compromise and sort it out between you. This means all of you climbing down off your high horses and starting again.

Your husband is the link in all of this, he is also the problem - if he had handled the situation better (or at all!) in the early days then none of you would be where you are now. He needs to understand that and he needs to take steps to sort the problems out - mainly as he is the only one who can.

If you approach you step son directly then you will have to take all of the anger and hurt - you can't do that (your posts show that - not many people can).

You need to talk to your husband - send him to a counsellor or family therapy if necessary and get it into his head that he needs to get things back on track.
He needs to reassure his son and make it clear to him that he is loved, but he also needs to draw the boundaries that his son must respect regarding his new life with you.

It may help if he helps his son to feel secure by telling him how his estate is to be split at his death or explaining that his inheritance is safe, it may help the son if he is allowed some "private time" with his father once in a while - maybe a boys weekend away twice a year so he gets to see his Dad on a 1:1 basis (my Dads wife has no understanding that we don't want her constantly involved with our relationships with our father, in the early days she used to insist on all of his conversations with us being on speakerphone - and he complied as he could see nothing wrong with it - men!)

But at the end of the day it is Dad/Husband who holds the keys - if you want things to change you have to find a way to make him understand that.

For yor part, don't expect credit, don't expect praise, don't expect thanks - you won't get it at the moment from your SS. Just accept politeness, civility, and no open hostility and eventually, if your Husband gets it right, your SS will come around. If he doesn't then eventually his Dad will see him for what he is and create the distance between them himself.

You need to tell your husband what you think is acceptable to you - no open nastiness, no aggression, no hostility (or whatever it is you want) but don't set your sights too high, just high enough for you to be able to cope. That way there is not a huge pressure on your husband to create a "perfect family" - that will scare him (and it sounds like he is running scared from the confrontation already!)

I hope this helps a bit and makes some sense - it is always hard to put these things into words on an internet forum -but I wish my Dads wife had put as much thought into her relationships with us as you have done with your step son! She seemed to think that we would just fit into her idea of a family mould and forget all of our family history.....

Chin up and move forwards

Puss
xx

floss2

I think Pusscat's suggestions are good and sound - but compromise is only possible if all sides are willing to enable it to come about.

I can only say that I am glad that when my father died in 1991, my 3 brothers did not behave in any way like this 40 year old has done.

Personally I think he may benefit from counselling - either through his GP or an organisation like Cruse who help the bereaved.

pusscat

floss2 wrote: »

I think Pusscat's suggestions are good and sound - but compromise is only possible if all sides are willing to enable it to come about.

Floss

Totall agree with you.....I probably did not explain myself that clearly....

I would hope (but it is only a hope!) that if the responsibility for sorting out the relationships is put squarely onto Dad then if the son does not start to behave "reasonably" within a certain period of time, then Dad will start to see that the son is actually *immature/spoilt/brat/troublemaker/looser/waster insert word as appropriate* and start to back off from him on his own accord. That should either make adult son behave, or he can storm off and sulk, but with his Dad not PMum.

This way, Paddys Mum is not the one who is causing the "backing off" it is Dad himself. If PMum actually encourages contact and forgivness in this situation she will actually become the "heroine" of the hour to both sides.

The question in my mind is - is Dad man enough to step up to the plate?

With my Dad I tried to explain that he needed to take charge of the situation through a series of discussions that always ended up in shouting matches - eventually I managed to explain it by email - it took the heat out of the situation and allowed me to say what I wanted to without ending up in a slanging match.

Things improved once he took (some of!) the reponsibility, but I will not be in a position to say if it has been sucessful yet for some time! I am working on it though.....but things have certainly improved.

In my opinion, many long time married men have stopped bothering to "communicate properly" with their grown up kids - they leave that to their wives without even knowing that is what they do. When the kids call, they chat about nothing for a few mins and then say "I'll put your Mother on" they then just get editied highlights from their wives afterwards about what their kids are up to. When they get remarried they subconsciously expect the new wives to do the same thing as the previous one - communicate with the kids. The new wife does this with her own kids (if she has any) but either tries and fails with his kids, or just does not bother as they are not her kids (fair enough). This leads to no communication with the adult kids and problems like the ones Paddy Mum is experiencing. The Husband has no concept that as a new addition to the family, on top of a load of grief for a lost Mum, that this is asking WAY too much of the new wife - and if she tries then it all goes pear shaped and the new wife becomes the figure of hate.....as PM has seen.

Hope that makes some sense - it is my pet theory and it took me years of thinking to start to understand some of this :-)

Puss
xx

pusscat

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:One day I may manage a post that is less than 200 words!!!

Counting_Pennies_2

paddy's_mum wrote: »

I can't express how disappointed and upset I am by some of the responses to this thread. As much as I defend free speech and the right of others to hold a different viewpoint, some of this feels like a deliberate misinterpretation of the information given.

I am sorry if what you expected was people to wholeheartedly support your stance.

You posted on here for some advice. In this wonderful world of free speech that is just what you got. I didn't waste my time to rant at you, I spent my time to give you another perspective on how the family might feel. As indeed others probably have.

If you can't take the comments, you shouldn't post in the first place.

Catblue

Paddy's mum, would you consider selling the house and choosing a new house with your husband?

I know it is a bit "closing the door after the horse has bolted" since you have already remodelled the house and the ructions have already been caused, but it just might liberate you from the past a bit. I think there is a lot to be said for having a home that is purely yours and your husband's.

I honestly don't think there is much to be gained from trying to placate the son - from what you've said, he is never going to see things from another person's point of view. But maybe seeing you and your husband in a new place removes some of the automatic triggers for "well, my mum never put the sofa in that corner" thoughts.

I know that I would want to buy a different house that is entirely free from all the emotional baggage of a previous relationship, personally. Even if it was just half a mile down the road.

Good luck with it.

Errata

The first wife died at least 12 years ago. The son is 40 years old and it seems there is no area of his life that isn't chaotic. I can see no good reason why his rudeness should be condoned, he's old enough to be a grandfather.
Couples who try to live their life in a way that satisfies a third adult are bound to fail.

lostinrates

Errata wrote: »

The first wife died at least 12 years ago. The son is 40 years old and it seems there is no area of his life that isn't chaotic.

Which might posibly be partly caused by/resultant in the over attachment to a long deceased mother. I know a man (now dead himself) who grieved for his mother for forty years, refering to her her likes and dislikes constantly, I do not think it healthy or desirable behaviour, but I did think it genuinely grief stricken. My siblings in law , one cannot refer to their mother at all, the other is still in counselling. This is terrible, unhealthy and sad, but it is still genuine emotion.

I can see no good reason why his rudeness should be condoned, he's old enough to be a grandfather.

Neither do I,but I do see reason to try and understand and while continuing with normal healthy progression for the father and new wife to appreciate that the son is obviously not in ''the same place''. This doesn't mean tolerating rudeness, it might mean addressing his concerns, expressing love and concern while maintaining some very strong boundaries.
Couples who try to live their life in a way that satisfies a third adult are bound to fail.

Agreed. But even adult children are still the parents ''offspring''. I would say serious lines need to be drawn, but it might be in addressing some areas the happy couple don't feel keen to: i.e. wills, perhaps apologising for not appreciating that the stuff was so valuable...whether heartfelt or not it might help the son.

Errata

As dad is apparently trying to find £10k to get his son out of debt, I think son would be wise to mind his p's and q's.