Some advice needed

paddy's_mum

I'd be very worried about 'accepting this man as he is' if the current situation is indeed as a result of the most astounding naivety. To be honest, both father and son sound equally stupid. The woeful personal standards, the abandoned d-i-y, the bad back and disability benefits while father flits off to Tenerife, the willingness to be shackled to a known debtor who is still racking them up - the list of danger signals goes on and on.

What's going to be the situation a few years down the line when there might be a dependent wife and children, a so-called disabled father, a mortgage or two ... and then the fiance gets sucked into some sure-fire-thing business with offices in Nigeria .....

The only other option I can see is that the money that was being saved for a lovely wedding is instead used to buy the son out of the arrangement, settle any outstanding mortgage monies, and start off again with a clean slate, letting father sort out any remaining self-inflicted problems.

If the son has gone so willingly to the slaughter, I really can't see that he will change his position now. Sadly, I would not be surpised to hear that he proposed to break off the engagement rather than have to deal with bedrock problems that are going to make his brain ache.

I think that none of this would have come about if Steph hadn't decided, quite reasonably, that she wanted a better start to married life than a scruff-hole of a house, containing a mucky, lying layabout, and a gullible, easy-going son far too willing to go along with it all.

I'm sad for Steph's heartache and I truly don't envy her all that must be said this weekend but experience tells me that she may one day look back on all this and thank heaven that steps were taken to avoid certain disaster.

Pollycat

burnoutbabe wrote: »

no, i am saying take the man as he is. As he may well have to pay out this money forever as he has somehow commited to a mortgage without actually owning the place. So basically a fixed rate loan for 25 years.

he may well NOT be able to sort it out. so you either accept he has this other commitment (same as you would with an ex wife or a man with kids or even a man with debts he is paying off like a car loan) or you don;t.

she doesn't really have any other option does she? dump him or accept he has this payment to make every month (which may or may not impact his ability to afford to rent elsewhere)

But why should Steph "take the man as he is"?
We're not talking about something trivial here, like her not liking him smoking or maybe leaving the toilet seat up.

It's a potential financial nightmare that could affect them for years and years.

I think (as paddy's mum has already said) Steph very reasonably wants a better start to her married life than living in what sounds like a dump.

I think she DOES have other options than the 2 you've outlined - dump him or accept it.
She can help her OH sort out the financial ramifications of paying this mortgage.
She can help him understand what might happen to his home if his father doesn't make a will or legally transfer the house.

I think Steph's OH is maybe somewhat naive in his understanding of property law, and Steph has been too.
Maybe they can find a way out of this mess.

Steph
Does your OH understand now that paying the mortgage does not mean the house belongs to him?

I'd think very carefully about getting a house with your OH and then having his father to come and live with you.
It's OK saying he'd have to contribute - but how do you enforce that?
And what's to say he won't treat your new house in the same way as he's treating the one he lives in now.

Regards

paddy's_mum

Spot on, Pollycat.

I so hope that Steph can see that it is concern for her own vulnerability that is fuelling the comments urging her to protect herself. Some of them must sound incredibly condemning and hurtful but my own view is that better a bit of hurt now than years of unhappiness in the future.

As an aside - personally, I wouldn't accept a will made in my favour as a solution. Wills can (and often are!) changed behind the inheritor's back and the change not discovered until it's too late to remedy blatant wrongdoing. You can't beat legally enforceable paperwork which is part of the reason that earlier I urged the couple to seek urgent legal advice.

tandraig

Stephb1986 wrote: »

Can I just say I'm not trying to force FIL2B out of the house I just don't want to move into it.

We had a talk last night and I told him the situation he is in I think he's took it on board and he's said we will have to look for somewhere to live as to what happens the the house I don't know yet. We will have to talk to his dad about it. I'm not saying his dad can't live with us in our new house but he would have to contribute to it. He is disabled but does work sometimes as and when he's up to it.

I'll update further later I'm just on my way out.

why, steph, are you now saying your FIL would be welcome to live with you? is it just that house you dont want to live in?
is it worse than youve let on? you know - the kim and aggie nightmare?
or the area perhaps? ex council usually still have some council owned properties around them and dont sell as well.
you also say your FIL is disabled..........well, you could have told us that before - before we all came to the conclusion he was a layabout.

I dont think I can offer advice any more - you are hiding things which dont suit you to disclose and I am begining to feel sorry for your future FIL!

bestpud

Seems to me there are three money centred people in this relationship.

FIL can't control his money and will probably always be in debt unless he decides himself to get a grip of it. He has a disability but we don't know what it is or how it affects him, and until we do, there is little that can be said about his working status. Maybe he is able to claim disability benefits?

The son knew what he was doing when he bought the house - he wanted a property at knock down rates so he agreed to help his dad buy it. The solicitor will have told him the implications.

Not only did he clear the rent arrears, but I am pretty sure every council insists a tenant has be up to date with their rent for 6 months before they can buy/exchange/do anything. This was planned - it was not a knee-jerk response to the debts.

Steph comes along with money of her own (not sure how much worked for and how much compensation but money of her own all the same) and a good job.

She sees her fiance as owning a cheap house and thinks they can sell it, make the dad get his own place, or palm him off on the daughter (this plan is very clear in the earlier posts, whatever is said now), and they can use the proceeds plus her savings to find a lovely house of their own.

And they get a lovely big wedding too! Fab, isn't it?

Only it's not that simple!

Three people made for each other as far as I am concerned. Sorry if that offends.

Stephb1986_2

Who said anything about a big wedding? it's certainly not going to be a big wedding and thats because we don't want it to be. What is the problem with me trying to protect my own money?? Whats wrong with me wanting FIL2B to get a place of his own and we can have our own house would you want to live with your FIL for the rest of your life?? He has something wrong with his back I can't remember the name of his condition. He is a layabout too.

I'm not hiding anything I'm just saying what I know you can jump to your own conclusions.

paddy's_mum

In fairness, Steph did mention fil's disability several days ago in the 'Villain' thread so the fact hasn't been concealed or I would not have been able to mention it within this thread. The comment just didn't get portered across.

JBD

Steph you can easily protect your own money, as long as you are not married. your FIL has no legal claim on your money. However if you were to live in his house and contribute to the mortgage then yes, he would benefit. That is because he had the asset ie the 26 year council tenancy, which was exchanged for the discount [and I'm guessing this was quite a large discount]. That is why his debts are tied up in the mortgage. Really if you are a successful business woman you should be able to understand such a simple concept. So yes, if you were to live there and contribute to the bills it would probably be fairer to contribute 1/3 and allow your OH and his Dad to sort out the other 2/3 between them.
If you do want your own place ,away from FIL, then yes you may well have to step up and spend some of your own money. It's what adults have to do, known as paying your own way.

Pollycat

Stephb1986 wrote: »

Who said anything about a big wedding? it's certainly not going to be a big wedding and thats because we don't want it to be. What is the problem with me trying to protect my own money?? Whats wrong with me wanting FIL2B to get a place of his own and we can have our own house would you want to live with your FIL for the rest of your life?? He has something wrong with his back I can't remember the name of his condition. He is a layabout too.

I'm not hiding anything I'm just saying what I know you can jump to your own conclusions.

But, Steph - your FIL-to-be DOES have a house of his own. He's currently living in it!

The fly in the ointment is that your OH is paying the mortgage.

Whether any of the posters who've contributed to this thread would want to live with their FIL for the rest of their lives is totally irrelevant.

It's YOU who started this thread because YOU have that issue.
But HEY!
Didn't you also say:

I'm not saying his dad can't live with us in our new house but he would have to contribute to it.

Make up your mind, Steph.

I asked this question yesterday:

Does your OH understand now that paying the mortgage does not mean the house belongs to him?

bestpud

Stephb1986 wrote: »

Who said anything about a big wedding? it's certainly not going to be a big wedding and thats because we don't want it to be. What is the problem with me trying to protect my own money?? Whats wrong with me wanting FIL2B to get a place of his own and we can have our own house would you want to live with your FIL for the rest of your life?? He has something wrong with his back I can't remember the name of his condition. He is a layabout too.

I'm not hiding anything I'm just saying what I know you can jump to your own conclusions.

Nothing at all wrong with you protecting your money - in fact you'd be a fool not to. I will substitute the word 'big' for 'expensive' if it makes you feel happier. It is still spending an awful lot of money on a wedding when many would be putting that into their first home . You were under the impression you could get the father out, sell the house and use it to get something better, but it's fallen somewhat flat.

In short, you wanted it all.

The house purchase was not at act of altruism - your finace knowingly did it for his own gain.

Whatever you think of your fil, it was, and still is, his house and your finance had no right to buy it himself, so you cannot march in and ride roughshod over an agreement he made with his son.

His dad clearly doesn't want to help himself and that's what makes him as bad, but in a different way from you and your fiance.

I don't think you should move in with him, no, but I do think your fiance needs to face up to the situation his greed finds him in.

That may well involve promising his dad a smaller property if they sell the house, and/or helping him rent a place somewhere else. I think it likely you will be paying for the property for some time tbh.

What he can't do, morally or legally, is walk away.

Is there any chance of building an extension, or granny annexe perhaps - would that be an option? I'm guessing you would just want a clean break from it, which I can understand.

Do you think he'd agree to sell the property and you find him a smaller place, or somewhere with a self-contained flat attached?

The downside of this is you would need to make sure the legalities are watertight given his dad's reluctance to pay bills!

Unfortunately, I think you need to accept your fil is going to play a major part in your marriage for a while to come. I'm not sure your fiance would have it any other way tbh.

Was he happy to discuss it with you?