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LLoyds Tsb Loan PPI
robbedofmymoney
Posts: 881 Forumite
I have today recieved a rejection letter from LLoyds Tsb for my loan PPI,
obviously this is a standard letter as i only posted my complaint to them on the 2nd Jan 2010.
anyway, i have read a number of threads where people as worried about the resonse they first get from their lenders.
so i have posted my full response to LLoyd which i intend to send tomorrow in the aim to demonstrate the types on answers you could give.
if any one spots any glaring aerrors please let me know before i send it.
happy reading,
Thank you for your prompt response dated 8th January 2010 to my complaint dated 2nd January 2010. You refer to a letter you have sent me dated 6th January 2010, I have not received this first letter, so can only assume it has been lost.
After reading your response, you state that you have addressed each point in my letter of complaint, you have not properly addressed every point, and you have not properly addressed my concerns.
You have also referred to a telephone recording that was made for which you have not enclosed a copy of this recording, Please send me a copy of this recording for my records. There was more than one phone call concerning this loan for which you will no doubt have recordings of, can you send me all of these recordings. (not transcripts)
I will now refer to the points you have commented on and will answer these points accordingly.
“LLoydsTsb did not lead customers to believe that the insurance was compulsory or that the application for credit would be compromised in the absence of cover. Lloyds TSB through its processes, practices and documents took steps to ensure the customer was fully aware of the optional nature of the cover.”
2 points are raised here, the first referring to wether or not the insurance was optional, as per my previous letter dated 2nd January 2010 you did not make this fully clear and explain this to me properly under your obligation to do so. If you had of explained this properly I would not have taken out your policy as there was no need to.
You have not been successful in implementing your obligations and procedure through your second point as I still purchased your insurance even though I had alternative cover.
On a point of fact, and I would like your answer to this question, If Lloyds Tsb do not mis lead people into purchasing their insurance, why is it that well over 90% of claims made against Lloyds Tsb for PPI mis-selling are upheld by the FOS.
“Lloyds Tsb s process provides for customers to receive Your Quick Guide to Comprehensive Loan Protection Insurance which complies with the FSA’s requirements to provide a policy summery to the customer. In your case you signed a Customer Declaration which confirmed receipt of the Policy Summery. I attach a copy of the signed documents. The Customer Declaration confirms that full details of the price of the loan protection insurance were included in the Customer Credit Agreement.”
“Lloyds TSB s Policy makes clear that the policy is optional in the Key facts section on the first page.”
I had already been advised over the phone to have your insurance prior to signing the documents there for I did not see any reason for going through the document in great detail as I had been led to believe I needed your policy. It is your obligation and responsibility to discuss any exclusions, options and terms and conditions prior to selling me the policy, and to make sure the policy is sold in my best interests.
“the Policy Summery sets out the right that the customer has to cancel the policy”
Your Policy sets out my rights, why then in 2007 at my Local branch was I told I “could not cancel” just my loan protection, if I did my re-payments would “not go down” as the only way to do this would be to re-negotiate the loan and that this would be at a “higher interest rate” I was there for advised not to cancel the policy as it would not have saved me money. This advice was not in my best interests, as it appears I have not been advised correctly.
This is one of the points you failed to address within my original complaint.
You have then referred to the overall cost of this insurance, the total cost of this insurance is not in question so your statement here is irrelevant.
“In addition to the above, you received as part of the sales process a document confirming Lloyds Tsb s recommendation of Payment Protection Insurance. This Document is the Statement of Demands and Needs required under the FSA’s rules. The version of this document you received contains a clear statement that:”
“You are aware of the benefits of optional Loan Protection Cover and have confirmed your current eligibility for cover.”
“We have reviewed the Personal Summery and our Recommendation (YPSOR) documentation provided to the customer before completion of sale. In the process that our Sellers follow they complete the YPSOR and use this as a prompt to discover wether there are any exclusions that should be drawn to the attention of the customer. I enclose a copy of the YPSOR from which you will note that there were no exclusions raised.”
The copy of my (YPSOR) you have sent me is incorrect, I have not filled in this document. This has as you have stated, been completed by an Adviser. This is the first time I have seen this document.
In particular where your advisor has ticked the boxes No. the facts are as follows to each point.
“Do You have any form of Life or critical illness insurance that would provide cover for the entire term of this loan.. Your adviser ticked No.”
I had at the time and still have life and critical illness cover, life cover for 200k, and seperate criticall illness cover, these policies are with Lloyds Banking Group companies (Scottish Widows) why would I say no to this question?
“Do you have any form of accident, sickness, hospitalization or unemployment insurance that would cover you for the entire term of this loan. Your adviser ticked No.”
I had and still have got income protection insurance which kicks in after a pre-determined time to co-incide with my employers contractual obligations on pay. Why would I have said no to this question? I believe this was and still is with Scottish Widows, a LLoydsTsb group company.
“Would you be able to repay this the outstanding debt under this credit agreement from any other source if your present circumstances were to change. Your adviser ticked No.”
I had all of the above from the first 2 points, Why would I have said No to this question.
Your recording of this sales call will shed more light on these points.
Its clear these last few paragraphs only strengthen my case for a miss-selling complaint.
“The duration of the LPI policy matches the duration of the loan. This is made clear in the policy terms and conditions.”
My notes and records do not reflect this, I have the insurance down as 5 years. Send me a copy of the insurance terms and conditions stating cover is for “6 years”.
As you have not satisfactorily resolved my complaint I am requesting that you look into my complaint again. And in doing so would request that if you are unable to demonstrate that you have treated me fairly, and advised me correctly in all aspects of this miss-sale I require a full refund of all premiums paid to date complete with associated interest.
If I do not receive a satisfactory response within 8 weeks form the date of my original complaint I will have no option but to refer my complaint to the FOS for them to action.
obviously this is a standard letter as i only posted my complaint to them on the 2nd Jan 2010.
anyway, i have read a number of threads where people as worried about the resonse they first get from their lenders.
so i have posted my full response to LLoyd which i intend to send tomorrow in the aim to demonstrate the types on answers you could give.
if any one spots any glaring aerrors please let me know before i send it.
happy reading,
Thank you for your prompt response dated 8th January 2010 to my complaint dated 2nd January 2010. You refer to a letter you have sent me dated 6th January 2010, I have not received this first letter, so can only assume it has been lost.
After reading your response, you state that you have addressed each point in my letter of complaint, you have not properly addressed every point, and you have not properly addressed my concerns.
You have also referred to a telephone recording that was made for which you have not enclosed a copy of this recording, Please send me a copy of this recording for my records. There was more than one phone call concerning this loan for which you will no doubt have recordings of, can you send me all of these recordings. (not transcripts)
I will now refer to the points you have commented on and will answer these points accordingly.
“LLoydsTsb did not lead customers to believe that the insurance was compulsory or that the application for credit would be compromised in the absence of cover. Lloyds TSB through its processes, practices and documents took steps to ensure the customer was fully aware of the optional nature of the cover.”
2 points are raised here, the first referring to wether or not the insurance was optional, as per my previous letter dated 2nd January 2010 you did not make this fully clear and explain this to me properly under your obligation to do so. If you had of explained this properly I would not have taken out your policy as there was no need to.
You have not been successful in implementing your obligations and procedure through your second point as I still purchased your insurance even though I had alternative cover.
On a point of fact, and I would like your answer to this question, If Lloyds Tsb do not mis lead people into purchasing their insurance, why is it that well over 90% of claims made against Lloyds Tsb for PPI mis-selling are upheld by the FOS.
“Lloyds Tsb s process provides for customers to receive Your Quick Guide to Comprehensive Loan Protection Insurance which complies with the FSA’s requirements to provide a policy summery to the customer. In your case you signed a Customer Declaration which confirmed receipt of the Policy Summery. I attach a copy of the signed documents. The Customer Declaration confirms that full details of the price of the loan protection insurance were included in the Customer Credit Agreement.”
“Lloyds TSB s Policy makes clear that the policy is optional in the Key facts section on the first page.”
I had already been advised over the phone to have your insurance prior to signing the documents there for I did not see any reason for going through the document in great detail as I had been led to believe I needed your policy. It is your obligation and responsibility to discuss any exclusions, options and terms and conditions prior to selling me the policy, and to make sure the policy is sold in my best interests.
“the Policy Summery sets out the right that the customer has to cancel the policy”
Your Policy sets out my rights, why then in 2007 at my Local branch was I told I “could not cancel” just my loan protection, if I did my re-payments would “not go down” as the only way to do this would be to re-negotiate the loan and that this would be at a “higher interest rate” I was there for advised not to cancel the policy as it would not have saved me money. This advice was not in my best interests, as it appears I have not been advised correctly.
This is one of the points you failed to address within my original complaint.
You have then referred to the overall cost of this insurance, the total cost of this insurance is not in question so your statement here is irrelevant.
“In addition to the above, you received as part of the sales process a document confirming Lloyds Tsb s recommendation of Payment Protection Insurance. This Document is the Statement of Demands and Needs required under the FSA’s rules. The version of this document you received contains a clear statement that:”
“You are aware of the benefits of optional Loan Protection Cover and have confirmed your current eligibility for cover.”
“We have reviewed the Personal Summery and our Recommendation (YPSOR) documentation provided to the customer before completion of sale. In the process that our Sellers follow they complete the YPSOR and use this as a prompt to discover wether there are any exclusions that should be drawn to the attention of the customer. I enclose a copy of the YPSOR from which you will note that there were no exclusions raised.”
The copy of my (YPSOR) you have sent me is incorrect, I have not filled in this document. This has as you have stated, been completed by an Adviser. This is the first time I have seen this document.
In particular where your advisor has ticked the boxes No. the facts are as follows to each point.
“Do You have any form of Life or critical illness insurance that would provide cover for the entire term of this loan.. Your adviser ticked No.”
I had at the time and still have life and critical illness cover, life cover for 200k, and seperate criticall illness cover, these policies are with Lloyds Banking Group companies (Scottish Widows) why would I say no to this question?
“Do you have any form of accident, sickness, hospitalization or unemployment insurance that would cover you for the entire term of this loan. Your adviser ticked No.”
I had and still have got income protection insurance which kicks in after a pre-determined time to co-incide with my employers contractual obligations on pay. Why would I have said no to this question? I believe this was and still is with Scottish Widows, a LLoydsTsb group company.
“Would you be able to repay this the outstanding debt under this credit agreement from any other source if your present circumstances were to change. Your adviser ticked No.”
I had all of the above from the first 2 points, Why would I have said No to this question.
Your recording of this sales call will shed more light on these points.
Its clear these last few paragraphs only strengthen my case for a miss-selling complaint.
“The duration of the LPI policy matches the duration of the loan. This is made clear in the policy terms and conditions.”
My notes and records do not reflect this, I have the insurance down as 5 years. Send me a copy of the insurance terms and conditions stating cover is for “6 years”.
As you have not satisfactorily resolved my complaint I am requesting that you look into my complaint again. And in doing so would request that if you are unable to demonstrate that you have treated me fairly, and advised me correctly in all aspects of this miss-sale I require a full refund of all premiums paid to date complete with associated interest.
If I do not receive a satisfactory response within 8 weeks form the date of my original complaint I will have no option but to refer my complaint to the FOS for them to action.
I'm proud to say that the banks no longer take money from me after becoming debt free
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Comments
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Robbedofmy money
Sorry to hear of the rejection.
And good for you for doing this.:T
Great letter, well done and it looks like you covered all gounds here, hopefully they will reconsider on this now with more of a positive outcome.
Fingers crossed for you, remember as well to post by recorded delivery.:D;)
Good luck.
DiThe one and only "Dizzy Di"
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to be honest i was expecting this to be a long haul with Lloyds after reading some of the other posts.
however, i was surprised at the speed of their first response, within 1 week, still that gives them another 7 week to mess around with.
will keep everyone updated.
cheersI'm proud to say that the banks no longer take money from me after becoming debt free0 -
robbedofmymoney wrote: »to be honest i was expecting this to be a long haul with Lloyds after reading some of the other posts.
however, i was surprised at the speed of their first response, within 1 week, still that gives them another 7 week to mess around with.
will keep everyone updated.
cheers
Your doing the right thing here, you stay in control.:T
To be honest, last year when both me and hubby went through this with Lloyds in regards of the Credit Card ppi, they fobbed us off as well and we were eventually successful with the FOS.
Now we are at lloyds about the loans ppi, and so far, they just been keeping in touch by letter every 4 weeks asking for more time, more hopeful with these, but not holding my breath, think they had enough of us now to be honest, as we have so far won about 3 reclaims against them so far.
Fingers crossed for you.;)The one and only "Dizzy Di"0 -
i will get my money back, even if it takes a year or 2,I'm proud to say that the banks no longer take money from me after becoming debt free0
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robbedofmymoney wrote: »i will get my money back, even if it takes a year or 2,
That's the attitude......:T:T:TThe one and only "Dizzy Di"0 -
robbedofmymoney wrote: »i will get my money back, even if it takes a year or 2,
Yeah good attitude to have, and you may, sorry, WILL need to refer back to that in the near, and far, future!0 -
they have ben takin gmoney form me through miss-selling for 10 years, so i suppose waiting 2 to get it back won't harm,
anyway, i won't get 8% interest on any of my other savings.
the longer it takes the more i will get.I'm proud to say that the banks no longer take money from me after becoming debt free0 -
just an update.
Lloyds have recieved my letter and have contacted me to confirm if i have computer access, now this has been done i will be contacted again to arrange a time and date for my telephone recordings to be delivered, i can't wait to listen to them, pick them to peices and throw them back.
these will confirm the miss-selling of the insurance policy as i remember the conversations i had so well.
lets hope all of the phone calls are there, if not my phone records (yes i still have them through my work) will confirm dates, times and duration of all calls i made to Lloyds. (don't trust them any more) i feel they will just give snippets and bits they want you to hear.
will keep you updated.I'm proud to say that the banks no longer take money from me after becoming debt free0 -
just an update.
still waiting for Lloyds to re-contact me to arrange delivery of the voice recordings they have mentioned (will probably never get). so i have sent of for a SAR which should have the details.
tried to cancel my loan ppi today only to find out my monthly payments would go up, so leaving it in place and paying for it even though i can't use it,
i suppose it just strengthens my case for when this goes to the FOS as being an unfair policy.I'm proud to say that the banks no longer take money from me after becoming debt free0 -
Hope you receive these soon.
Hubby still waiting for his refund of PPI over 6 weeks on, which was finally resolved through the FOS.
It was resolved in about November 09 time and the FOS state if hubby receives nothing by 4 weeks of the FOS letter dated 4 DEC 09 to chase them up, we have done this and still nothing and the FOS said they were contacting them to request for an update on this, this was last week, and still nothing.
I email them regular through internet banking, and they have emailed me with the dept who deals with complaints and refunds etc, details here if you will need them at some point.
[EMAIL="Customer.Care.Insurance@Lloydstsb.com"]Customer.Care.Insurance@Lloydstsb.com[/EMAIL]
Fingers crossed.;)The one and only "Dizzy Di"0
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